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Saginaw Steering And Pto Winch

Discussion in 'Winches' started by Steve's 70-5, May 15, 2020.

  1. May 22, 2020
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member

    Louisville, Ky
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    I hear this all the time. The question I have, if the engine dies, how much pulling can you do on the battery?
    The way I see it, if the engine dies with either winch you are are not going anywhere.

    The engine running is not a valid argument
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    dozerjim likes this.
  2. May 22, 2020
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    That sounds like a neat trick neat Nick, got any pics?
     
  3. May 25, 2020
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    Not much but maybe enough to get you out of a creek after you kill the engine in deep water...
     
    Ns0mniac likes this.
  4. May 25, 2020
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    You get a lot more if you pull the spark plugs :D
     
    Desert Runner likes this.
  5. May 25, 2020
    Ns0mniac

    Ns0mniac Member

    San Clemente, CA
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    I would contest this, I've blown a lot of engines wheeling, an electric winch has been nice for getting me off the rocks and onto a flat spot where I can troubleshoot. The battery has always lasted me. Also I've bound up the clutch linkage on rocks before where I couldn't manipulate the clutch which would lead to issues with the PTO winch, but I guess a skid plate or hanging pedals would solve that problem, or maybe you could just spin it in gear with the starter?

    Perhaps if I had spent more time working on the engine and less time thrashing it in the rocks I wouldn't have had that problem either. I was younger and dumber than I am now:)
     
  6. May 25, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Well I would certainly suppose there must be a reason why most cable skidders and tow trucks tend to rely on PTO units.
    Strength, dependability, durability, and speed control all come to mind.

    Anyway to Steve I say ••• don’t mess up a good winch.
    Just take it off for now and try to enjoy your Jeep some.
    You can get back at it anytime later.
    Maybe you could trade your “A” frame winch for a low mount Koenig.
     
  7. May 25, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    And add to that, full 100% duty cycle. For hours on end in some cases, for instance when I was moving a large pile of boulders.

    Another vote for PTO. Best accessory you can have on a Jeep IMHO.
     
  8. May 26, 2020
    Desert Runner

    Desert Runner Member 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hickory, Pa
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    I went thru the whole gambit. I started with a 9000 lb Desert Dynamics electric winch, 110 amp alt and dual batteries, which needed replace about every two years. The winch worked well for over 10years, and is now installed on my car hauler trailer.

    Next I went to a hydraulic Mile Marker 9000 lb winch. Fed by an AGR P/S pump. I loved this winch, two speed, easy to switch from fast to slow, I used this winch for dozens of recoveries and it worked flawlessly for two years. Then I could start a pull but if I stopped and any point, it would not reengage. I contacted MM and they said it was the solenoid block, so I bought one from flee bay. It worked once, on the next use the same problem occurred. So I forked out twice the price and bought one from MM. With the same results, worked once and not again. MM said if I shipped it to Florida they would diagnose it, and give me an est. It's now in the barn on the junk pile.

    I finally found a Ramsey Model 74 Dana 20 PTO. I actually got it from ebay in the mid 80's and then in 2013 or so got a pto winch to go with it. I like the ability to increase the drum speed by shifting gears, but I miss the ability to get out and watch things and use a remote to control things and get out of the line of fire

    So like others here have stated it comes down to your own personal preference
     
    Ns0mniac likes this.
  9. May 26, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    You can operate a PTO winch from outside the vehicle if you have one with a built in friction disk clutch.
    I have such a winch on my present Jeep build.
    I have it rear mounted in place of the draw bar using all of the drawbar mounting points.
    So my custom winch cradle is very strong and also is designed to accept a log arch, boom or gin pole.
    This winch is operated from either inside or outside the Jeep.
    It is the Braden model J-22 3B and it was specifically designed for small jeeps.
     
  10. May 26, 2020
    Ns0mniac

    Ns0mniac Member

    San Clemente, CA
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    Aug 7, 2019
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    That's pretty awesome, never seen a PTO winch that you could operate from outside the cab, I guess that would solve my previously mentioned clutch binding problem.

    To be clear I'm not against PTO winches, I prefer them greatly on service vehicles, they beat electric hands down for stuff like firewood hauling, tow truck type work, any constant duty cycle work. For my Jeep I've personally chosen electric because I've had experiences that have steered me in that direction. To each their own! PTO winches definitely win in the coolness category though, no contest.
     
    Desert Runner likes this.
  11. May 29, 2020
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Sep 23, 2002
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    Let’s try this
    I had these input shafts made years ago and have installed a couple. I don’t have any pics of them in a winch. Looks like these need some cleanup. Been sitting in storage too long I guess. And no, not for sale.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. May 29, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Super idea Nick.
    My Braden j22 winch has a square factory input shaft .
    I drive it with a square Spicer pto yoke which slides over the winch input shaft to compensate for any length changes due to frame twisting.
     
  13. Aug 1, 2020
    Steve Wilkerson

    Steve Wilkerson New Member

    Southern Illinois
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    May 9, 2020
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    This seems like something I will want to do to my Ramsey.
     
  14. Nov 29, 2020
    XPR

    XPR New Member

    ME
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    I would like to see that setup. Some good pics of the winch too. I have a J-22 and it is hard to find very much info. It was converted to PTO driven and I think the friction clutch is missing. If I remember right they were made for hoisting and I would love to get it working and get some Gin poles. I doubt I could ever find the parts to restore it, but its goin on my 3B with a Monroe Lift.
     
  15. Dec 3, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    Sorry for the delay ... still having tech problems with pic hosting.
    Cannot upload any new pics yet but am finally able to get this pic uploaded that was taken last spring.
    [​IMG]
    This Braden is powered by a rear mount Spicer 18h PTO. The draw bar was removed and all draw bar mounting points used to attach to the custom design winch cradle.
    I look see if I have any other related pics available that were previously uploaded to the pic host site....
    On the winch itself you see two external controls. One for the friction clutch (engagement) and the lever with spring on it is an internal drum brake.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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  16. Dec 3, 2020
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    How close is the pto drive shaft to the axle tube? Are you doing anything to limit axle travel?

    I keep bending my front one every time I hit a bump :(
     
  17. Dec 4, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    The Jeep has standard full axle travel at both axles.
    This is a 1953 Hurricane powered 3B with 1956 (first year) T 98-A transmission.
    That alone mandates I had to move the transfer case aft by 5”.
    Then I installed a Warn overdrive ahead of the Spicer 18H.
    This all implies the PTO output is well aft of normal.
    In fact the PTO output yoke is just ahead of and barely below the crossmember.
    So all in all I have just enough PTO shaft height to clear the rear axle tube with axle at full left wheel stuff position.
    The winch installation itself was carefully planned.
    And fitted so it interferes with nothing except that I had a very small loss concerning angle of departure.
    The winch was mounted just low enough so that I could drop the tailgate to a flat position.
    It is very firmly mounted to the rear crossmember and draw bar stays.
    I have more to show when I can get pics to upload on my pics host.
     
    Fireball likes this.
  18. Dec 4, 2020
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan

    heres my solution: you take the winch off, sell it to me for close to nothing, and use the power steering! or put an electric one on.
     
  19. Dec 5, 2020
    oldtime

    oldtime oldtime

    St. Charles,...
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    I don’t wanna diverge from the original post too much.
    When i’m able to get at my pics then I’ll start a new post showing my rear mounted winch detail.
    Or maybe i’ll just go ahead and show the whole build.
     
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  20. Dec 7, 2020
    1947cj2a

    1947cj2a Member

    PNW
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    Nov 11, 2017
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    I was able to mount a Koenig and a manual steering set up on my 2A. I am not running an original engine so I do not know if you will find clearance need for the drive shaft. Obviously you can work around that a little bit. Also the disengage lever on my Koenig is missing so I did save some space from that.
    Its in my build thread, you can see some pictures. I did have to make a bracket that I welded to the front crossmember as well.
    Cj-2/5 Tjs-10 Dakota Build
     
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