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M38-a1 Vs Cj5 Identification Help

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Jonbbrew, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. Apr 7, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Do you mean M38, not M38A1? It does makes a difference!

    CJ5 tub (and frame) should be the same length as M38A1. (Late Cj5 had longer front end, for in-line six engines.)

    Willys Jeep Dimensions - Bing images
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  2. Apr 7, 2020
    Jonbbrew

    Jonbbrew Member

    Paso Robles, CA
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    19865509-B7BE-4DCE-AEE6-0165CAE696DF.jpeg
    I’m not sure what I have for a frame. I just know it doesn’t line up with tub.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  3. Apr 7, 2020
    53A1

    53A1 Member

    Kern Co. Ca.
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    I just put the bracket on for the shovel and axe. I'm looking for a period correct set. My A1 is not a great off-roading rig and that's what I'm into so it gets the least attention. I've been restoring it ground up for over 10 years. I just need to finish up some electrical and it will be done.
     
  4. Apr 7, 2020
    53A1

    53A1 Member

    Kern Co. Ca.
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    Wow. You really have a mix of parts. At this point I would first measure it out and determine where the frame came from. The M38 (not M38A1) also has a machine gun mount or it may be a CJ2A frame which is about the same but with no machine gun mount. The CJ5 and M38A1 were longer. If it is an M38 frame those are desirable. Does yours have a full floating rear axle? I think the M38 may have had one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  5. Apr 7, 2020
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    You might have a flat-fender chassis under there. They are shorter. I also see the early U-style spring shackles.
    -Donny
     
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  6. Apr 7, 2020
    Jonbbrew

    Jonbbrew Member

    Paso Robles, CA
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    8778092E-79A5-46F0-87D1-57594289998E.jpeg
     
  7. Apr 8, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Hard to tell from the picture, is the rear diff cover oval shaped without flat sides? If so, it's a Dana 41 and it would put the axle (and maybe the chassis) as a CJ-2a.
     
  8. Apr 8, 2020
    Jonbbrew

    Jonbbrew Member

    Paso Robles, CA
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    038BB3BD-90C0-4A3F-8A77-AAF87FFEFF4B.jpeg
     
  9. Apr 8, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Yep, that's a Dana 41. So the rear axle and possibly the frame are CJ-2a.
     
  10. Apr 8, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Jonbbrew likes this.
  11. Apr 9, 2020
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    Frame is early 3A, 1949 or early 1950. The early 3A's had the D41 rear axles. My jeep, Ted, had one. Front frame horns are most certainly 3A. CJ2A ones were totally different. The switch from the D41 to the D44 probably happened in 1950 when the M38 was in production, but the leftover D41's were used up in the civilian market. Could even be the rare 1949 CJ2A frame. They were the same as 3A frames. Looks like a real jeep salad going on here.

    MB's and very early 2As were the only jeeps to have full floating rear axles. The M38 had the D44. The OP's frame is not M38.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  12. Apr 9, 2020
    Jonbbrew

    Jonbbrew Member

    Paso Robles, CA
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    Yes with all this help on this post I agree. So now It looks like it is a 2A or 3A? I’m still confused.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  13. Apr 9, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I'd personally be more inclined to consider selling it off and starting over with an authentic jeep. Might be less headache in the long run.
     
  14. Apr 9, 2020
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I believe Garage Gnome is correct. I didn't realize the Dana 41 made it into early CJ3As. It's a 49 or 50 flatfender chassis.

    As for what to do with it, it depends on your goals. If you want a restored Jeep that is close to original, that ship has long sailed with this Jeep. However if you want a fun Jeep for driving around and working on, there's nothing wrong with this one. In fact, since you don't need to worry about originality, you can do anything you want with it. Sometimes that's more liberating.
     
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  15. Apr 9, 2020
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    What are you confused about? Like I said in my previous post, the 1949 CJ2A frames are the same as the 49-53 CJ3A frames. There is no other way to tell without the rest of the jeep. 2A tubs are slightly different than 3A ones.

    Just had a thought, 2As had a vin tag riveted on the outside of the driver's side frame rail, right behind the bumper. Check that and see if there is any evidence of it being there. Or just post a picture here.
     
  16. Apr 9, 2020
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Didn't we have another member that recently posted this same situation? The too-short frame? The main question was what to do with it - I think the consensus was to make a flat fender Jeep with the frame and a CJ-5 with the body. Either of those will take a bunch of work and down-time.

    Personally I would rather have a CJ-2A or CJ-3A because I have never owned one. Driven them, but never owned. My feeling is there are a lot of CJ-5 rolling chassis around, since the bodies rot away much faster than the frames. There used to be M38A1 frames around too... though I have not seen any for sale lately. Another possibility - check with the Mil collectors.
     
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  17. Apr 9, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    I do remember this, hadn't been too long ago. Maybe some time last year?
     
  18. Apr 9, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    I don't think this was asked yet, is the front cross member round?
     
  19. Apr 9, 2020
    Jonbbrew

    Jonbbrew Member

    Paso Robles, CA
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    4430BA83-79CD-41CA-B5EF-558AD0D379D5.jpeg ACBF0FF8-E692-4088-80D6-FA2D6552BC06.jpeg
    No.
     
  20. Apr 9, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Glad you posted pictures. It's not original anyway, flat fender frames have a round one. Definitely modified so the CJ5 body would work.
     
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