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Noise In The Front Of The Engine

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by ardan, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Feb 26, 2020
    SIDSCJ

    SIDSCJ Jeep addict

    14th State
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    1,189
    I think Glenn is on to something.
    Either a stuck stat, or clog or restriction in the cooling system. Heat up the coolant and it has to go somewhere, sounds like a weak tea kettle.
     
  2. Feb 26, 2020
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb

    Southern...
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    x2 sound location can be hard to distinguish, maybe a trans main drive brg? Fuel pump possibly? does the fuel pump have one of those vacuum chambers on top of it for the windshield wipers?
     
  3. Feb 27, 2020
    baldjosh

    baldjosh Member

    pacific north west
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    451
    RPMs sound high...but the crank pulley isn't moving all that fast
    thought about something like this as well...
    just gonna put it out there...kinda souds like the starter is engaging...not sure how that's possible but the grinding noise seems to follow the wobble of the bent crank pulley
    mind you not being energized but just mechanically being turned...that hiccup noise is really bugging the crap out of me
     
  4. Feb 28, 2020
    ardan

    ardan Member

    West Tennessee
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
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    52
    Hi Guys,

    Be away for a couple of days and didn't see the post. Thanks for all the ideas and comments. Let me update you on where I am now.

    I went back out with some friends ready to help me locate the source of the sound. (still without fan belt on it) so no water pump or alternator. Let it warm up to 150 and no sound.
    Not wishing to run it any hotter without the water pump I stopped it and tried again 4 hours later, still no sound. Installed the belt back on the jeep and ran it for a full 10 minutes, still
    no sound.

    I realize that the sound will reappear, it wasn't a fluke that it happened the first 4 times I ran it. So my plan is tomorrow, which the weather is supposed to be sunny, I am going to try
    to drive it down the street and back and see if the sound reappears. I have bought a stethoscope just in case. I will provide an update after that test.

    But here is some information that may help isolate the issue.
    * It has an electric fuel pump, so it couldn't be the mechanical fuel pump.
    * The cooling system works, the thermostat opens at 150 and maintains, so I think the cooling system is working.
    * The noise sounded much louder in person that on the video, not sure why but it does.

    I will be posting tomorrow with whatever I find or doen't find.

    Thanks again for all the help...

    ardan
     
  5. Feb 28, 2020
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    Its a bad bearing in the front of your water pump that gets hot and makes noise. I could be wrong, but it seems as though you have isolated the problem.
     
  6. Feb 28, 2020
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    That’s what’s weird. It makes the noise without the water pump hooked up.
     
  7. Feb 28, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    No No No!

    You can't leave us hanging like this!
     
  8. Feb 28, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Anything mechanical stopping making that horiffic noise defies logic.
     
  9. Feb 29, 2020
    ardan

    ardan Member

    West Tennessee
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
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    52
    Hi Guys,

    Here is this mornings update
    I cranked it up and let it run while I got prepared to take it down the street. The motor purred like a kitten for about 10 minutes and the sound started back.
    Pushing the clutch in makes no difference, the sound continued. So I pulled out the stethoscope and started going all over the engine. Checked the all other and the
    noise is 100 percent for sure in the very front of the engine by the crankshaft pulley. The sound at the top of the timing cover is less than at the bottom.

    Cannot figure why the sound doesn't start till the engine get hot. So my plans are to pull the pulley, order a new one and try that. Then if that doesn't help
    pull the timing cover and oil pan. But I am guessing as what to do next as I am not a mechanic and this was supposed to have been a fun hobby.

    Any suggestions of these to check will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

    Ardan
     
  10. Feb 29, 2020
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I don't think this is your crank pulley. Might be a front main bearing issue or a cam bearing. There are only so many areas where rotational noise can occur.
     
  11. Feb 29, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sep 21, 2002
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    Without the water pump circulating coolant 150 degrees is not an accurate engine temperature. Before anything else I would verify that the thermostat has a weep hole that allows the water to equalize both in amount and temperature.
     
  12. Feb 29, 2020
    ardan

    ardan Member

    West Tennessee
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    Mar 19, 2019
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    Thanks for the feedback,

    I will check out some you tube videos on the Front Main Bearing and Cam Bearing and see what they say.

    The Water pump is hooked up and running again, when the jeep gets to 150 and holds there (doesn't get any hotter) so I don't know how it could be the water pump.

    Thanks for the ideas!!!
     
    Glenn likes this.
  13. Feb 29, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Have you confirmed the upper hose is hot (indicating flow) at the 150 temperature? But not before it gets close to the temperature?
     
  14. Feb 29, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Have you verified that the temp. gauge is accurate?
     
  15. Feb 29, 2020
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I think it is the front pulley..
     
    Glenn likes this.
  16. Feb 29, 2020
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Yes.

    Suppose it is expanding just enough to get a tiny bit loose on the shaft when warm? Or that damaged rim is loose on its hub?
     
    Walt Couch likes this.
  17. Feb 29, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Sure appears to be heat related, or warming up related. If I hadn't heard the burping type of noise I wouldn't think thermostat/cooling system.
     
  18. Feb 29, 2020
    ardan

    ardan Member

    West Tennessee
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    Mar 19, 2019
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    Hi Guys,

    Just because it is a pretty day I decided to take the plunge and drive it around the block (about 4 Miles). The temp gauge went to 150 and held there, the sound came and went but did not remain
    consistent like it did when idling. I put a temp gauge (IR pointer thingie) and the middle of the upper hose read about 120, where the hose goes in the engine about 152, The radiator is aluminum and the sensor
    wouldn't give a good reading but it was hot to touch top to bottom. Where the temp sensor screws into the Head read 156.

    Still think I will try a new front pulley, All your input has been great..

    On the good side of my first real drive
    - My first try at a transmission rebuild seems to work, at least so far 1st, 2nd, 3rd and reverse all worked....
    - Speedometer is only off about 4 miles per hour. It read like 31 when my GPS told me 35.. Close enough for me.

    Any and all ideas are very welcomed, I will let you know what I find.

    Thanks!!!!
     
    Walt Couch likes this.
  19. Feb 29, 2020
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Thanks for the update. That's interesting with the middle of the hose only being 120. Hmmmm, makes me want to check mine now. The pulley is definitely bent. o_O
     
  20. Feb 29, 2020
    ardan

    ardan Member

    West Tennessee
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
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    52
    Hi Guys,

    Maybe I found something. I pulled the pulley off and found that there is a groove cut in the side of the pulley where it inserts into the timing case. Maybe it was super close and as the pulley heated it
    expanded enough to rub. That grove looks deeper than the hour or so I ran it could dig so I bet it had been doing this a while... What do you guys think???

    upload_2020-2-29_15-56-43.png upload_2020-2-29_15-56-43.png

    I will order a new pulley, check the clearances and I hope that that will fix the problem......

    Thanks

    ardan
     
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