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Thoughts On Revolver Shackles

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by garage gnome, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. Nov 18, 2019
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    I am thinking of getting revolver shackles for my Jeep. Does anyone use them here? I’ve heard of them being unsafe. Is that true? I think the little jeep could benefit from these.
     
  2. Nov 18, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    IIRC this was discussed here previously, and the consensus was against. I think one argument was that they reduce traction.
     
  3. Nov 18, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    If they are up front, they can theoretically unload in a panic stop, but I’ve never met anyone it’s actually happened to.

    IME, I’ve never seen them do any good on a trail. They allow the axle to droop a few inches further, but it’s the last few inches of travel where there is no weight on the tire to add traction anyway. So it just articulates the axle further, angling the traction tire’s contact patch even further. Could be the difference between staying on an obstacle and sliding off.

    They were huge in the late-90s - early 2000’s when all anyone cared about was their rating on the RTI ramp.
     
  4. Nov 18, 2019
    Iandavidh

    Iandavidh Member

    California
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    I’ve heard about them unloading while going up and down steep hills which would be more than a little scary.
     
  5. Nov 18, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    What's the driver on this?
     
  6. Nov 18, 2019
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
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    Get some and tell us how they do.
     
  7. Nov 19, 2019
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    I was wheeling with someone who had them on his Samurai.
     
  8. Nov 19, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    So did you feel his suspension was out performing yourr's or are you just into the Cool factor? :)
     
  9. Nov 19, 2019
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    They just seemed to work awesome. I have lockers front and rear and he does too. His flexed more than mine did it.
     
  10. Nov 19, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    If you have lockers you don't need revolvers, less need to keep all the wheels on the ground.
     
    ITLKSEZ likes this.
  11. Nov 19, 2019
    Hônes

    Hônes New Member

    Colorado Springs CO
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    For my 71 CJ5, I made double shackles in 1998 for the front which functioned just like Revolvers. This was about the same year a guy in the Top Truck Challenge in Hollister ran a Sami with these and I too was enthralled. They definitely added more droop for every axle I had on the front end from the original sprung under narrow 27, a wide track Waggy 30, and then a Waggy 44 sprung under which eventually got sprung over.

    Shocks and brake lines had to be much longer and carefully positioned. Custom hydraulic lines were necessary because even the ‘extended’ ones included with 4” spring kits weren’t long enough. Shock towers and lower mounts had to be made that had the posts facing fore/aft instead of side to side (factory) because of the amount of axle twist possible. The shock bushings would bind up on the original style side-facing mounts and act as a limiting device. (IIRC, late-1990s F350 front shock towers are excellent for this mod on the cheap.)

    For more flex, I also pried my Superlift 4” SuperRide spring clamps open on the tops to form ‘U’ shaped saddles that kept the packs in alignment but allowed the leaves to spread out for more flex at the expense of spring life. The CJ was no longer my DD so experimenting with axles, shocks, and spring configurations was a regular occurrence in its 99% rock crawling life in AZ. On-road manners were not really a concern but I never noticed any problems with the shackles. I can’t recommend jumping however...which I did do at Glamis sand dunes in CA ...once. CJ5s with double shackles are less airworthy than their single-shackle counterparts if that point wasn’t absolutely clear. If you’re in the air long enough with a front engine/short wheelbase rig, pitching forward is to be expected and landing with the nose down and shackles fully drooped is no good. For extended flights, I suggest strapping them closed! LOL

    If there was ever an issue with them unrelated to logging flight time, it may have been compounded by the leaf clamps being pried open... but on extreme droop, it was possible to get that drooped tire or shackle hung up on obstacles/rocks and attempts to drive up and out places extra stress on other key components. It does make that tire hang quite a bit aft of where it normally rides and creates a steering effect. While the other tires are trying to move forward, the one drooped one that may be hung up on a ledge is having to move further aft and WAY up to keep up with the others. I broke at least a u joint and bent a main leaf this way.

    But, all this to say that I genuinely loved em and would recommend them for the front of a CJ. My observation on other vehicles is that the closer the tires are to the springs, the less effective a double shackle is...or the spring is for that matter. With most later leaf sprung Jeeps, CJ/YJ/XJ, etc the rear frame is wider than the front and despite wide track axles, the springs are right next to the tire sidewalls and little if any benefit seems to be gained by those spendy shackles. I think back in the 90s, they were like $150 a pair and that was a lot for how little they helped out a few rigs I saw em on. I only removed the double shackles when I built a new chassis after 6 years of dealing with the frame cracks resulting from age and flexing during crawling trips.

    -Hones
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  12. Nov 20, 2019
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    never on the front if you have to maybe on the rear ….. trail gear sells a cool spring perch pivot the relieve so bind ,but also only in back
     
  13. Nov 20, 2019
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I built my old Willys pickup rock crawler with a front ‘goofy leaf’ 3/4 elliptical leaf spring setup. Normal leaf springs, but the shackles bolted to another leaf spring that bolts to the frame, rather than a rigid mount. Under weight, the upper leaf is held against the frame, but it can pull away from the frame under droop.

    I built guides into mine that would hold the springs from moving laterally, and I ran a pin through these guides to lock them in place for street use. I can’t find any pics of the truck where it’s visible.

    As time went on, I ended up never unhooking them on trail rides because the positives never outweighed the negatives. As I stated before, the 4” of extra droop looked cool, but it never helped with traction because there was no weight on the tire. I think it’s the reason the fad sorta came and went.
     
  14. Nov 20, 2019
    cj6/442

    cj6/442 Sponsor

    Fallbrook, Calif
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    exactly right cool twisting but without weight in the tire pointless
     
  15. Nov 21, 2019
    y2grey

    y2grey Member

    Fayetteville NY
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    Ran them on a YJ with OME Springs. Combined with the softness of the springs we did have some highway handling issues, nothing crazy but noticeable. In retrospect an SOA setup would have worked better off road. That's what we run on the WILLYS. They worked well for RTI crawling and slow go off road work.
     
  16. Nov 21, 2019
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder

    Western MA
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    It sounds like something I don't need.
     
  17. Nov 21, 2019
    Hônes

    Hônes New Member

    Colorado Springs CO
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    61709A5C-7C72-4A8E-ACDD-FBA8E38A1624.jpeg
    Hey Garage Gnome, Here’s a test run north of Phoenix before shocks and yes those are air horns on the fender. Don’t ask LOL, I was young. I had a good time with the double shackle modification whether or not the lightly loaded tire added all that much in traction or not but it was definitely on the ground in more situations than it would have been and I assume less teeter tottering from carrying a tire in the air.

    This configuration was Waggy Dana 44s front and rear with Lock Rights in both, spring over on Superlift 4” springs with the middle leaf removed, 33x15.50 Swamper SX. Torsion forces on the frame always helped develop cracks due to partially boxed frame rails that got to be repaired until eventually building a new chassis for it. Hope all this discussion helps you make a better informed decision. -Hônes
     
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