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Are All Oil Pumps The Same?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by red61cj5, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. Oct 30, 2019
    red61cj5

    red61cj5 Just fell off the turnip truck!

    wv
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    So I've got my block and crank at a machine shop. I'm going to buy my rebuild stuff from the same place since he's boring the cylinders and he can order the right size pistons. Thing is, he asked me what oil pump I have, right or left rotation? Are there different oil pumps in F heads? Is he mistaking it for something else? He did refer to it as a "jeep 2.2". He claims to have experience with f heads.
     
  2. Oct 30, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    To avoid confusion can't you just take your old one to him?
     
  3. Oct 30, 2019
    red61cj5

    red61cj5 Just fell off the turnip truck!

    wv
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    That's my intention, but I cant find any reference to differently oriented oil pumps, here or anywhere else.
     
  4. Oct 30, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    The only thing I know of is the very early L-heads had timing chains, versus everything after that had gears. That difference = cam shafts turned one of two ways, and I assume the oil pumps did too. Maybe that's what he's referring to. Others on here know more about that than I do.
     
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  5. Oct 30, 2019
    47v6

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    Since the oil pump is gear driven off the cam and the distributor is drive with a one way only key, the timing would be backwards if there was such a thing as reverse rotation and would HAVE to be specified in his cam spec sheet.....No way the cam/oil pump would be interchangeable
     
  6. Oct 30, 2019
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Ask him if he knows anyplace you can get some winter-weight blinker oil.
     
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  7. Oct 30, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

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    Melling M53 vs. M53A, the "A" is for the early flatheads with the timing chain.
     
  8. Oct 31, 2019
    red61cj5

    red61cj5 Just fell off the turnip truck!

    wv
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    Thanks to everyone, I guess the L head is still a "2.2 liter". Ill set him straight. So now that I know this, how good are the chances of getting a crappy Chinese pump? What do I look at to determine the condition of my original?
     
  9. Oct 31, 2019
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Good Question, I bought mine from the Jeep Doctor, always wondered how good of one I got. Good Luck
     
  10. Oct 31, 2019
    red61cj5

    red61cj5 Just fell off the turnip truck!

    wv
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    Summit racing has the m53A fitting all f heads before number 44417. but list the m53 as fitting that number on up. Model years are all over the place, they don't seem to know jeeps were willys back then and list them separately. Kaiser willys has 1 pump for all 4 cylinders from 46 -72. I'm starting to see why the shop guy doesn't know either. I believe my engine is original to the jeep, so its a 61. Walcks says number 804484. He's always done right by me in the past. is this the right one? Also states his is U.S. made.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  11. Oct 31, 2019
    47v6

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    Please educate me if I'm wrong, but i don't think that any Fheads used a chain to drive the cam. That was only MB/GPW L head engines and maybe a couple very early cj2a's.

    The Summit spec sheet for the M53a/M53 cover ALL the same years from 1942 to 1970, but the one claims it's for an earlier model. I would assume the one after engine xxxxxx is the one you want since f and L head stuff is mostly interchangeable aside from the intake valves aside from chain driven L head stuff.

    Melling is a quality manufacturer. To check the oil pump, you're going to need to remove the cover. The procedure is in the service manual. Require feeler gauges to check the clearance and different thickness gaskets. As I recall, those gaskets weren't available 24 years ago when I did mine. You're not going to be able to prime your system on this engine with a drill, so pack it with vasoline if you take it apart or fill it with oil if you don't.
     
  12. Oct 31, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    Howard went through the oil pump scenario not long ago. I would either get the one he mentions, which of course matches what Summit racing says, or get what Walck's says.
     
  13. Oct 31, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    They're playing it safe (in theory) because all of those years would be timing gear engines, but if someone had swapped in a timing chain engine.....all bets are off.
     
  14. Oct 31, 2019
    red61cj5

    red61cj5 Just fell off the turnip truck!

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    Looks like if pump is sitting shaft up, gears lean left is for gear driven, gears lean right is chain.
     
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  15. Oct 31, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    Good comparison. (y)
     
  16. Oct 31, 2019
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

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    As long as the machine shop does quality machining work you should be all set.
     
  17. Oct 31, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

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    Indeed not.

    Melling *DOES NOT* want you pulling the cover off- the instructions explicitly warn that bad things will happen to you, your family, relatives, friends, acquaintances, casual acquaintances, the old cat lady down the street & the next five generations of your descendants if you pull the cover & mess up that gasket. :shock:
     
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  18. Oct 31, 2019
    47v6

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    I can see why. A quality rebuilt or new unit should not need you to check the clearances on the pump gears. Like I said, 24 years ago those gaskets were not available, i would assume they aren't now either.
    That would also require the cam gears to be matched, so if your rebuilder is buying a kit, they would automatically come together...

    Do chain driven cams run the pump and therefore the distributer in an opposite direction? Is that really the case? I have never rebuilt a chain driven Lhead.
     
  19. Oct 31, 2019
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

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    Ay-Yup.
     
  20. Oct 31, 2019
    47v6

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    I had no idea. Thanks for educating me. I wonder why this change occurred. I know that the early Lhead motors were different, but those differences went away pretty quick after the WW2 jeeps were finished in production.
     
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