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Fino's 1970 Mini Build Thread

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Oct 3, 2014.

  1. Mar 7, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    You are in for a treat.

    4. Shouldn't need a case spreader. With caps removed the carrier should come out with a pry bar.

    6. Ring gear usually can be tapped on with a dead blow hammer.

    On newer axles, the carrier shims are on the outside of the bearing cup. Pretty sure yours are between the carrier and the bearing.

    6.1. Remove bearings from Trak Lok carrier (if you plan to reuse). Keep track of carrier bearing shims and which cups go with which bearing.

    6.2. Install shims on carrier and press bearings on.

    7. Check backlash. If not right, repeat steps 6.1 through 7 until correct. Set-up bearings are an immense help as pulling the carrier bearings off and pressing them on is a major pain and often ruins the shims. Set up bearings are also designed for new bearings as used ones have a different spec due to wear.

    You may get lucky on first try with your backlash, but chances of both carriers machined to the same exact tolerances is remote. While checking backlash, also probably good to put marking compound on the ring teeth and check the wear pattern. Not to discourage you, but this is the reason axle shops charge quite a bit to change gear ratios, it is a pain to get it all set right.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  2. Mar 7, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    You may find this helpful. Tapered 44, but all the carrier/pinion principles are the same...

     
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  3. Mar 13, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thanks Tim - that video shows some unique specifics to our old D44s that some of the more generic videos from Yukon gear etc are for newer axle set-ups.
    Should I remove the axle housing from the jeep to make removing the entire case easier and mostly for checking backlash etc? I fee like I can use my dial indicator with the magnetic base on the housing to check backlash with the housing on the jeep. I don't really have a bench set-up to hold the housing but it still might be easier than doing it attached to the jeep? As the carrier bearing shims are between the bearings and carrier, most of that work can be done on the bench...but I may have to install and remove the case a couple times if I have to adjust the shims. In theory I shouldn't have to do too much with shims for backlash, just recheck and verify backlash and pattern...but that may not be reality of course.
    I am going to pull it apart and see what happens. I have a ways to go before I begin to reinstall the new locking case...but if I need to re-shim to adjust backlash, I will probably have to order some shims, and I might order some set-up bearings at that time (or see if someone on here has some for borrow).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  4. Mar 13, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    I am actually working on rebuilding one right now (flanged 44) and had set-up bearings made (new bearings with ID honed to slip fit). You are welcome to borrow them once I am finished.

    Definitely easier to work on with the housing out of the vehicle. I use a pair of saw horses with built-in cradles for the axle tubes. Mine are set-up for two axles at once, but even a cheapo pair of saw horses should hold the weight of an axle. Makes it easy to drain, clean, work on, spin around, etc. I have also done it with a pair of jack stands on a folding table.

     
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  5. Mar 13, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    James - if you can pull the axles to work on them, I highly recommend it. Its much easier that way and worth it especially for the first time. My dad didn't want to have to get new U bolts so my first time was laying on the ground working under the jeep - and it was a PITA to learn that way and harder to see and do things.

    But that may just be me :D
     
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  6. Mar 13, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Thanks guys....On one level its frustrating to waste the the u-bolts that are new from last year....but I think they cost me around $5 each, so $20 for a set plus some painting is a small price for ease of working. Another question: can i use any artist oil based paint for gear marking compound? My wife has lots of old oil paint laying around...the classic bob ross titanium white as well as various yellows and other colors - what ever is easiest to see i guess. I want to check gear pattern and backlash before taking stuff apart.
    Also beginning to list out specs for hardware:
    Carrier bearing caps torqued to 70-90ft-lbs - can i reuse the same mounting bolts? Red loctite?
    Ring gear bolts torqued to 45-50ft-lbs - everywhere i read its always suggested to replace these. Can I get these at the local hardware store - grade 8 - or are they something unique to be ordered?
     
  7. Mar 13, 2019
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    Two options you may want to look at from Richmond Gear. They include the ring gear bolts, marking compound, shims, etc.:

    XL-1033-1 - Differential rebuild kit with Koyo bearings (these are good quality Japanese bearings, many Timkens are made overseas now anyway)

    Richmond Gear XL-1033-1 Excel� Differential Ring And Pinion Installation Kit 698231826096 | eBay

    83-1033-1 - Differential rebuild kit with Timken bearings

    MASTER INSTALL KIT - TIMKEN BEARINGS - DANA 44 STANDARD 30 SPLINE - SEE NOTES 662960003189 | eBay

    Carrier cap bolts are fine to re-use, torque to spec, no loctite required. Ring gear bolts, be sure to de-grease the bolts and threads (brake cleaner) before applying the red loctite and torquing to spec.
     
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  8. Mar 13, 2019
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Clean well and use a rebuild kit was always the way I was taught and have done that kind of work. Everything that should be replaced was in the full kits I got when I had the OX lockers done (was going to do it, but got a $300 price from a buddy at a shop and I was out of time to do it myself).
     
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  9. Mar 13, 2019
    OzFin

    OzFin Vintage Jeep Guy

    Michigan
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    Jul 16, 2007
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    X 3 on Tims & Chucks advice on pulling the axle to work on it, you won't regret it.
    I had posted some info a while back that you may find useful, look here around post 32.
    Dana 44
    Take your time, it can be frustrating but also very rewarding.
     
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  10. Mar 13, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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  11. Mar 16, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Differential work has begun....I went with the pull the entire axle housing out to make things easier method. Using the HF engine hoist yet again for a bit of help getting the axle up on the stands....
    [​IMG]

    Here is the Trac-Loc that is in it (and OEM I assume):
    [​IMG]

    it still works, at least to the point that when one wheel is turned, the opposing side wheel also turns in the same direction. So there is at least a minimal amount of friction on the clutch packs. I even took a quick video of it on the bench showing the entire unit turned when I turn one side and no movement of the spyder gears.
     
  12. Mar 16, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    So, now I am going to try and get measurements of the current backlash at various point along the ring gear, and also try to get a gear mesh pattern before I pull the axle shafts. Or is okay to pull the axle shafts first and save some of the tedious work for another day. Hopefully it won't be too hard to pull the axle shaft without the support of the axle being mounted to the jeep...
     
  13. Mar 16, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Ok - measured backlash at quite a few points around the ring gear - consistently getting 0.009" (with variation of +/- 0.001).
    [​IMG]
    Now on to gear pattern....
     
  14. Mar 16, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    Some gear patterns - these are all as it sits right off the jeep with who knows how many miles...
    The convex side of the tooth:
    [​IMG]

    And two for the concave side of tooth as they are harder to get decent photo:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mar 16, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    And a few more...trying a different spot or two and also more/less paint marker.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Mar 17, 2019
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
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    Use less paint .You want a very thin coating just enough to transfer the wear pattern.
     
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  17. Mar 17, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    will do...I need a better way to apply the paint...like maybe a paintbrush! Toothpick wasn't working that well...hard to get an even coating without globbing it on. I did get a couple tests with less paint (no photos) and seems to show that the contact is centered between tthe top and root of tooth and towards the toe. Skiing this morning and see if I can get better pattern mark this evening...also have 90 lab reports to grade.
     
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  18. Mar 17, 2019
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I used an acid brush. Buy a box of them from HF.
     
  19. Mar 17, 2019
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
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    Also just put paint on only one tooth then rotate the gears this is the way I was taught and still do it this way when I do gear work .personal preference is to use blueing compound or whiteout for marking. There are lots of reference pictures on the web for the contact pattern that is correct . I like to set them up to where they mesh in the center .
     
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  20. Mar 17, 2019
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
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    So there is lots of info on the web of course - as well as even from the various gear making companies (e.g. Yukon etc). I am trying to filter my info for quality sources only, and use info I've seen here - or linked to from here...but a couple questions/comments:
    1) While its ideal to have a perfectly centered pattern - it seems to be more important to have the pattern centered between the top and flank/root of the tooth and secondary to have perfectly centered between the toe and heel.
    2) These gears have not been set-up by me...this is just the way they are coming out of jeep. I assume they have lots of mileage put on them since Jan 1970 (no idea if they have been replaced?). When I reinstall them (not changing or touching pinion in any way), I will be able to adjust backlash with the shims. I intend to try and match the existing pattern (even if its a bit off) rather than try to set the pattern up perfectly?

    Ok - going out to try and get a better paint pattern - use a bit less paint with a small brush.
     
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