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Full Float Problems..

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by 47v6, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. Sep 3, 2018
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    USA
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    I have had not a single problem with my full float setup except for the bolts that hold on the locking hub loosening a bit. I remedied that issue by making some grade 5 bolts into studs and using permanent locktite to keep them in the hub. I used pinch style nuts and lockwashers to make sure stuff didn't get loose..

    Looked at my rear axle and saw grease sprayed out between the locking hub and the hub. The locking hub was loose.. Upon further inspection 5 of the 6 studs are broken inside the hub.

    I have a power lock L/S. This will occur again i am sure. Why do you think this has happened?
     
  2. Sep 3, 2018
    GeoffreyL

    GeoffreyL Well-Known Member

    moorestown, nj
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    They snap really easy once they loosen up even a little, I did it on my 74 AMC plow jeep front axle. My guess something loosened and it went downhill from there.
     
  3. Sep 3, 2018
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Maybe time for some Stage8 fasteners? Or change to bolts and safety wire them?
     
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  4. Sep 3, 2018
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    Bethesda potholes:D I like the grade 8 safety wire theme. Pondering if the aluminum hub body is expanding and contracting with heat cycles. Maybe we don't see this in the front axle with limited use and lower speeds?
    Edit:
    Don't alot of the FF kits for rears convert to internal spline?
     
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  5. Sep 3, 2018
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    One of the full floats I did years ago, I used grade 8 studs in the hub, set in locktite. In several years of use, I never had anything come loose. Every time I used bolts, I had to tighten them every couple months. I always used standard front front hubs with drive flanges.
    I should have never sold that Jeep.
    -Donny
     
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  6. Sep 3, 2018
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Chico CA
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    time to root through your piles of treasure for new stud materials. Find something close that works, get the lathe fired up to make new studs, then use the mill to inscribe your initials on the studs. You'll need to unbury the junky old kiln, and fill a metal 5gal bucket with used gear / motor / dino oil. Heat your new studs up to glowing red just before they become malleable, then plop them into the used bucket of oil. After the flames subside from randomly shooting out of the bucket, you'll have some hardened studs of unknown hardness depth.

    I don't know. I keep thinking of tossing some freakishly hot bits of steel in a kiln and heat treating them with a used bucket of oil... I have a chisel I did ~30yrs ago in HS of of 5/8" octogon steel, and well, it's finally chipping enough that I've considered trying to sharpen it up, then re-treat it. Also considered making a set of various sizes for myself... some other 'wood' carving and 'leather' cutting tools (like strap-end cutters, radius edge cutters, etc... I've been thinking I might try making with the old oxy/acet torch and a coffee can of used oil... AFTER I finish the jeep... (six years in the making currently).
     
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  7. Sep 3, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    In some apps like this (such as the king pin caps) the snug fit of the stud body in the bore is critical.

    Your studs may be undersize, or the bores may be worn.
     
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  8. Sep 3, 2018
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    Studs are over rated.
    Never had any problems running front locking hub bolts on my rear locking hubs when I had my FF set-up.
     
  9. Sep 3, 2018
    47v6

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    It may be because they are not as brittle as hardened studs or bolts. They may be malleable enough to bend a bit.

    The bores of the aluminum locking hub body mounting holes are oversized from the factory, so realistically the clamping force is what keeps them from rocking the hub body back and forth.

    I tried regular bolts, but they loosened. Posimoto had the same issue with his setup and used studs to remedy his issue.

    I will get a left handed drill bit/ extractor and use heat to burn out the loctite tomorrow. If that doesn't work I have another disk hub ready.
     
  10. Sep 3, 2018
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I am not expert on this but I believe what I'm trying to say is that some situations call for a stud with a specifically sized body diameter, which is a tight slip fit in the bore, thus preventing any initial motion between assemblies.

    My old Jeep pickup absolutely would not tolerate ordinary bolts holding the steering arm to the knuckle - it had to have the specific studs, with an oversize body, to prevent play and the holes getting wallowed.


    Similar to this.
    GPW Jeep CJ2A CJ3A M38 Willys MB Stud Steering Arm 3325 - Original Group Lot 3 | eBay

    I suspect the hubs may be designed with the same idea, IIRC. Also I've read of some people using "cone washers" to eliminate play.
     
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  11. Sep 3, 2018
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    My 64 Ford had cone washers holding the full float axle in.
     
  12. Sep 3, 2018
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    This!!! You want a full cross section of the bolt across the interface (no threads there). I've never had a problem with the full float in my 3B, Powr-Loc or Detroit. And it has been getting hammered with 400 hp for decades. I just use grade 8 allen heads and blue Locktite.
     
  13. Sep 3, 2018
    heavychevy

    heavychevy Sponsor

    Danielsville georgia
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    Grade 8 bolts are the industry leader for hardness. Try them out. I believe that will solve the stud problem
     
  14. Sep 3, 2018
    jeep peep69

    jeep peep69 Member

    redding ca.
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    Use new grade 8 studs or bolt and conical washers the ones from a early 80s Toyota 4x4 work excellent they are metric and just a touch smaller than 3/8 " so need to be drilled out or you can source the right sized through McMaster
     
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  15. Sep 4, 2018
    47v6

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    I think this is my problem. I am going to have to get the correct studs and or machine some cone washers or do something to get rid of the issues.
     
  16. Sep 4, 2018
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

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    Shouldn't this go in one of the technical forums, maybe "builds?"
     
  17. Sep 4, 2018
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
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    To bad you can't convert to Warn FF hubs. They use the Ford style premium locking hubs and you don't have the bolt loosening problem.
    I wonder if one could still get these. I do know the Warn FF locking hubs can be bought. I destroyed a set.
     
  18. Sep 4, 2018
    GeoffreyL

    GeoffreyL Well-Known Member

    moorestown, nj
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    It would be interesting to see someone try the conversion using late ford bronco front axle parts. They use the internal hub, have disk, and are a Dana 44x
     
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  19. Sep 4, 2018
    47v6

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    I went with the D30 setup because I didn't want to do half and half and I had all these parts laying around. I think I would need to buy ford spindles and a hub, then get the internal lockouts. Its not hard to do, I don't think, but I am kinda cheap. This is sorta my daily driver...
     
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  20. Sep 4, 2018
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    The best part about most FF setups is that it can be done very cheap with a couple of re-splined axles. Everything else is just off the shelf parts. Putting any money into a tapered axle housing really doesn't make any sense at all unless it is just for flat towing.
     
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