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New Guy With Old CJ5 And Nothing Makes Sense!

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by TechTchr, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Oct 25, 2017
    TechTchr

    TechTchr New Member

    Hudson Valley NY
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2017
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    22
    A1D58175-4405-4575-A4AA-A6677D389AB9.jpeg Hi,
    New member looking for help trying to figure out my recent purchase of an old Cj5.
    I have been looking through the documents and other information to try to decode my jeep so I can order the right parts to fix the wandering steering.

    So I just bought this Jeep with a plow setup to plow my driveway and drive around in off Craigslist. I had looked at several newer jeeps from the 90’s and they all had severe frame rot.

    So a 1963 jeep with plow shows up on Craigslist not too far away, so I grab some cash and my tow dolly and go check it out. Wanders all over the road, needs exhaust but runs good and not much rust. So I buy it and start doing research. It came with a plow, and 10 bins of misc parts mostly from a 4 cylinder engine.

    So being new to cjs I’m spending lots of time researching stuff. And having trouble getting the answers I need. Here is what I have figured out.

    It’s registered as a 1963. The serial number (57548 139710) comes up as a November 1961.
    The engine is a dauntless 225 v6 casting number B1375162. The only numbers i can find stamped on the pad on the passenger side is what looks like a 254 with what appears to be KMH under it.
    The front axle is a 27A and I think the rear is a 44. I cant tell what transmission it is because I cant find any numbers. I cant find the vin stamped on the frame either because it had been coated with por15. It has a plastic gas tank in the rear. Tub is in great shape.

    Best I can figure is that when the guy restored it, he took the chassis and drivetrain from a mid-late 60’s cj then possibly replaced the tub and had a vin tag from the other jeep that all the spare parts came from. The guy I bought it from only had it a short time and didn’t know much about it.

    Anyone have any insight? Mostly trying to figure out what year parts I need to order to fix the steering.

    Thanks for reading this long winded post, hope you guys can offer some help.
     
  2. Oct 26, 2017
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    Mar 2, 2017
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    683
    A few more pics would be helpful. Motor mounts to frame would be a good place to start to verify that you have a true 66-71 V6 frame. If so, that will isolate the steering parts needed.

    A factory service manual (FSM) would be highly recommended. Very helpful in identifying variations in the different models and components.

    Welcome to the forum!
     
    TechTchr likes this.
  3. Oct 26, 2017
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    Welcome from Oklahoma!

    We'll I can say your front left fender is from a late 70 or '71. The side marker gives it away. The windshield is also from that time or could be as late as a '75. The wiper motor tells us that. The tub is earlier, it has the faux battery compartment on the passenger side cowl that was a leftover from the M38A1 version. I think they stopped doing that around '64.

    Mechanics Manuals - Literature - Shop by Category

    This link is to factory service manuals like Dave was talking about. There are lots of places that sell them.
     
    TechTchr likes this.
  4. Oct 26, 2017
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
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    Welcome to ECJ5, from Michigan. You have come to the right place the members here can answer any question you may have. I will say the tub on your Jeep is later than a 1963, 63 had the gas tank under the drivers seat. Also 63 didn't have running lights on the fenders. I would guess the tub is a late 60's early 70's with the gas tank in the rear. My Jeep is a 1964, and I have had it all apart doing the restoration, so I know about the early 60's 134f four cylinder Jeeps, but not much about the later V 6 models, but the people here know everything about all CJ 5's. Good Luck CJ 5's are a fun affordable hobby, Good luck. Hint never close your hood without latching it down, it can fly up.
     
    TechTchr likes this.
  5. Oct 26, 2017
    TechTchr

    TechTchr New Member

    Hudson Valley NY
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    Oct 25, 2017
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    9B8078C1-EDC5-47B2-8111-0D3F696BBB1D.jpeg C7F51167-1329-4941-B6BA-91935ABD5EC6.jpeg
    Here are a few more pics.

    I’ll take more this afternoon.
     
  6. Oct 26, 2017
    Alan F

    Alan F Sponsor

    SE TX
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    With those shackles on the front it rotates the axle around where you probably get negative caster. If there’s any play in the steering components or misalignment in the toe it will amplify that problem. Then put big tires and offset rims and you’ve got a wandering mess. First thing I’d do is find a good shop that is willing to do the work on the front end to get it properly aligned, which may need axle shims if not a reconfiguration of the front axle.
     
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  7. Oct 26, 2017
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    welcome from va
    as others have said need more pictures of frame
    could you tell us if the rear axle is flat where rim bolts on
    steering is covered alot in this forum . the ross system has alot of moving parts that wear . steering box / bell crank /drag link
    I really don't think the shackles on it are helping any with steering issues . causing springs to move more sideways
     
    TechTchr likes this.
  8. Oct 26, 2017
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member

    western New York
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    Welcome from the other side of the state,lots of good people and info here.A lot can be learned about steering slop by watching the pieces and having some one turn the steering wheel back and forth,with a plow on the front end things wear out even faster.Even good ones are never going to be a Cadillac...think of a tractor with side by side seats...LOL.
     
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  9. Oct 26, 2017
    TechTchr

    TechTchr New Member

    Hudson Valley NY
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    I was thinking about going back to stock type shackles . But first all the steering components are worn and have lots af wiggle to them so I want to replace them first and see what effect it has.
     
  10. Oct 26, 2017
    TechTchr

    TechTchr New Member

    Hudson Valley NY
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    I had a ‘50 chevy 3100 that liked to wander, but after greasing all the parts and a new set of radial tires, it went straight down the road. The steering components on this all have tons of slop, I can turn the wheel a good 8” before the tires move. Just want to order the correct parts to make it safe for now so I can plow the driveway this winter then maybe do some more work next spring .
     
  11. Oct 26, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    From the tierod showing under the front it appears you have the factory stock Ross steering. Do a search here on "death wobble", that will tell you all you need to know about steering slop on these things. While a properly rebuilt Ross system works perfectly well depending on how far gone things are you may wish to consider swapping in a Saginaw steering box.
     
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  12. Oct 26, 2017
    TIm E

    TIm E Aggressively average

    NW Arkansas
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    The reason I mention verifying you have the actual V6 frame is it involves a slightly different steering box and sector shaft. If you do stay with the Ross set-up, see my post here as it may be helpful...

    15/16" Sector Shaft For Ross Steering Box - V6 And M38a1 $150

    The bell crank pivot (in the center just in front of the engine) is also a common culprit.
     
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  13. Oct 26, 2017
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    Welcome aboard! Your body tub is definitely from prior to '64 due to the raised "lid" panel on the cowl. You also have the fuel fill recess by the driver's opening left behind when a tank was relocated to the rear. From the rust, I'll guess the passenger front fender is original with no reflector recess. I can't find your engine casting number in my "head and block manual". Why do you think its a Dauntless? The casting number is found behind the left cylinder head by near where the bellhousing mounts.
    We need pictures of the frame engine mountsnd the engine. With a little more info, we should be able tomfigure out what you have.
    -Donny
     
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  14. Oct 26, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Three more clues would be:

    - which transmission does it have (t-90 would have originally matched the tub and would have had to have been adapted to the v-6, t-86 would be early v-6, and t-14 would be late v-6).

    - a close-up pic of the rear wheel would show 1- or 2-piece axles. One-piece axles weren't available till '70.

    - the marker lights in the grill went through minor changes through the years.

    If we're taking bets, my money is on '63 tub and grill dropped on a '70-71 chassis, and they stole the fenders and windshield from the '70-'71.

    Welcome to the forum.
     
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  15. Oct 26, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I would mention that there are lots of wear points in the Jeep front suspension and steering. The Ross steering used through 1971 was adequate with the factory sized tires, but lacks durability and requires a lot of muscle with large tires. Replacement parts for the Ross are also of questionable quality. The Saginaw steering conversion is very popular for these reasons, and because using a power gear and pump is not much more work than manual.

    I would look at the steering components, as well as the condition of the knuckles(!), spring bushings, springs, u-bolts, axle housing and frame. Plowing can be really hard on a lightweight vehicle like this, and abuse is common.
     
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  16. Oct 26, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I'll also add, that little steering wheel is not going to help the situation. If you choose to stay with the factory steering, I'd find a stock schoolbus wheel.

    I just lightened your interior shot. Your shifter appears to be from a t-86, and I don't see twin t-case shifters. That would put your drivetrain in the era of '66-'68? (Guys, correct me if I'm wrong.)

    You, sir, have a mutt! But don't feel bad about it. Mutts make the best companions. (y)

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Oct 26, 2017
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    cordele, Ga.
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    Welcome from Ga. Your 225V6 Dauntless engine ID KM H translates to K=? M= 1966V6 H= 225 9.0:1 w/2bbl.
     
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  18. Oct 26, 2017
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Yup - snowplowing can put a beating on a Jeep, depending how it is treated and for how long, and by whom.

    King pin bearings in the steeering knuckles are often neglected and can be a root cause of death wobble.


    tumblr_oqgofm6QAl1vhh16ko1_1280.jpg
     
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  19. Oct 26, 2017
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member

    western New York
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    I have found the same success,grease and radials are cool.On my snow plow jeep that I am working on now the frame at the ross box was rotted out and had a similar steering wheel slop,replaced frame and installing a saginaw box...has to be better.
     
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  20. Oct 26, 2017
    Karl Childers

    Karl Childers Member

    Taos New Mexico
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    Welcome X 2 (+ more)! On you finding the right place this is it, these guys will get you dialed in. Also congratulations on finding a Jeep in Upstate NY that old that is not rotted away, not an easy feat I lived in that area for many years. Also I agree on getting rid of the extended shackles, Mine has them but they are coming off as soon as I have some spare time.
     
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