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Original Steel Tub Repair Or Replace?

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by MA74CJ5, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. Mar 27, 2017
    MA74CJ5

    MA74CJ5 Member

    Bolton, MA
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
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    482
    This body (pics below) has been siting on pallets for about 7 years. I thought it was going to survive ok since I covered it. Well 7 years later I went back and my cover is gone - no evidence it was ever even covered. Leaves and the other elements of nature took up residence and a once solid tub literally fell apart in my hands. I think the PO's repair work hastened the demise.

    I want to repair it since it is a completely original #'s matching rig but even I am thinking this will literally be starting with a cowl and maybe the door sides and replacing everything else. I have a large garage, tools and skills but my question is has anyone revived a tub this far gone? Any words of advice, concern or encouragement are very welcome. If this type of question belongs in another part of the forum let me know and I'll happily move it.

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  2. Mar 27, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    Anything can be fixed.............the big question is how much is your time worth along with the cost of the parts?..............The floors front and rear are garbage already and look to have been fixed in the past as well as the firewall on the drivers side looks trashed also.............Obviously a replacement tub would be the best path , if you can find something out your way in decent condition................................pick out what is still solid metal and decent material to weld back to...........then re-evaluate.
     
  3. Mar 27, 2017
    Twin2

    Twin2 not him 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Virginia Beach, VA
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    yep this is true . I myself would look for a donor tub . see what would be easier to repair . all these floor panels can be bought
    1972 - 1975 Jeep CJ5
     
  4. Mar 27, 2017
    rusty

    rusty Well-Known Member

    norfolk,va
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    Dec 16, 2006
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    It can be fixed, but would take a lot of fixing. I would look for another tub. As said, save anything still good and transfer over to new tub or sell the stuff you don:t need.
     
  5. Mar 27, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Looks discouraging to me. You could go to the Classic Enterprises site and start adding up the cost of the panels needed to repair the floors and anything else that's rusty under the paint. You could imagine replacing all the floors, but the firewall is already patched, and the rust looks like it's creeping up into the vertical panels... this will require a lot of piecing in the edges of the wheel houses and such - assuming it's no worse than it looks in the pictures. The cowl is usually the part that's in best condition, so take a close look at that. If the cowl and side panels are rusty under the paint, I don't think you can repair this body, unless you can focus on it full time till it's done.

    The alternative to panels from Classic would be to buy sheet steel and make the replacement panels. It can be done ... you can make a stamp and die for the floor corrugations, and bend the pieces that need to be folded in a brake. You can make your own brake, or buy one. You can build a buck and hammer form the curved pieces you need. You'll need space to work and for some large tools that you'll need.

    If it were for me, there's no way I could afford the time to fix a body in that condition. I'd either buy a reproduction body, or find a used replacement body that's in better condition. The logistics of finding and bringing home a replacement body would not be nearly as daunting as how much work is needed to fix this body. Another possibility is to buy a complete Jeep if you can find one that's comparatively inexpensive, take the body from that, and part out the rest. The bodies mostly don't change from early 50s through 1975, and you can make an older body conform to 1974 standards pretty easily.

    An MD Juan '72-75 steel body is like $2500 plus shipping, and a complete body kit is $3500. You can likely buy a decent CJ-5 for less than that, and even if it needs a little work, be way ahead in money and labor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
  6. Mar 27, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Nov 22, 2003
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    If the sides/wheel boxes/cowl etc. are in reasonably good shape I'd at least price out a new set of floors/ hat channels from Classic.

    Replacement tubs come with their own set of issues- it won't be a bolt on & go unless you really don't care about how it looks, & even at that one would probably require some tweaking just to be usable. It may be original but it's obviously been worked on before- they're really only original once :(

    & Yes, I've been a lot deeper into it than that one.

    Index of /Images/The Sludge Pile/Section_T_Body

    H.
     
  7. Mar 27, 2017
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    I vote replacement tub (not reproduction.....but that's just me). Possibly cheaper to have avery nice tub shipped to you from out west somewhere. Might be worth investigating.
     
  8. Mar 27, 2017
    MA74CJ5

    MA74CJ5 Member

    Bolton, MA
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    Oct 28, 2004
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    Thanks everyone for the responses - great input.

    Let me address some of these points. First, I agree anything is fixable and Howard seeing your pics does my heart good because, the way I see it, this is a start with the firewall and work backwards welding in new parts making sure everything is tight and square. Second, I priced out Classic Enterprise's parts this morning and my initial list come to ~$1800. I'm not trying to go the cheapest route but being a bit of a purist when it comes to restoring Jeeps I'd rather a body 30% original with 70% replacement parts than 0%. The fact that it is $700 bucks cheaper and let's be honest when all is said and done a body tub will probably be ~$3000 at least. Third, this is a hobby and something I enjoy so the cost of my time is a non-issue, not that I have tons of it (3 kids, busy job, etc.) but I'm not in a rush to get it done. Lastly I have a few things in my favor: 20+ years working on Jeeps, all the tools including great welder, a buddy (in one of the pics above) who has also restored a CJ and is willing to help, large heated garage and additional helpers (3 kids).

    All that said, unless I get into it and it becomes apparent that the cowl is bad, I think I am going to try to fix this tub using Classic replacement parts. I'm probably also going to start a thread in the builds section to keep track of my progress.
     
    sterlclan and GeoffreyL like this.
  9. Mar 27, 2017
    GeoffreyL

    GeoffreyL Well-Known Member

    moorestown, nj
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    you are brave, I will watch this one closely. if you end up needing cowl parts i might have some early cj5 cowls to cut stuff off.
     
  10. Mar 28, 2017
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    And I have a couple tubs with solid floors that I can't sell for $400 out here.
     
  11. Mar 28, 2017
    MA74CJ5

    MA74CJ5 Member

    Bolton, MA
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    Oct 28, 2004
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    Thanks Geoffrey. Daryl if things go south I may reach out to you on one of those tubs. Shipped to the east coast would be cheaper than a new tub for sure.
     
  12. Mar 30, 2017
    teletech

    teletech Member

    Santa Cruz, CA
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    That's a ton of work right there. If you really want to fix it I'd find a donor factory tub for replacement parts. I just haven't been impressed with how reproduction sheetmetal lines up along joints and such. It might be that you can find a DJ or damaged CJ tub and just cut off the parts that are good on your current tub and attach those.
     
  13. Mar 30, 2017
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

    Silverton, OR
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    Dec 17, 2015
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    I built my tub from an original Cowl, Dash, Firewall, Toeboards Toeboard Gussets the Tunnel (which itself had a number of patch pieces) and the tops and fronts of the Wheel Houses. Everything else was either bought from Classic Enterprises or scratch built from 16ga bought at a local scrap metal place (it was new metal though) It was a HELL of a lot of work. If I had been going to restore rather then modify I am not sure I would have done it. As it was I wanted to build a much stronger tub with a one piece FLAT floor that I could put Oak strips on. So I had to do it myself.
     
  14. Mar 30, 2017
    MA74CJ5

    MA74CJ5 Member

    Bolton, MA
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    Yep that is a little more than I'm starting with...Firewall that needs a patch (see pics), dash, hood and grill. Cowl sides will need to be replaced along with everything else body-wise. The Classic Enterprise panels get great reviews around here but I've never used them, compared to original steel are they at least as good? Better? Worse?
     
  15. Mar 31, 2017
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member 2022 Sponsor

    exploring the...
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    at least as thick as original,id say they fit as well as original, made in the usa and signed by the guy who makes em...
     
  16. Mar 31, 2017
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I would add taking panels from another tub almost doubles the amount of work you need to do. Breaking a tub down into repair panels will take time and effort. At the wrecking yard, they would take a sawzall to the body and cut out the piece you need, plus a bit of the surrounding body. Then you would be responsible for trimming the panel to the part you need. This is much less time consuming than drilling out all the spot welds to create a panel like what Classic would supply.
     
  17. Mar 31, 2017
    MA74CJ5

    MA74CJ5 Member

    Bolton, MA
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    Totally agree Tim. Besides that there is about zero chance finding a halfway decent tub in our neck of the woods. In that same vein however, are you aware of any wrecking yards in the state that have a descent collection of CJs to pick parts from? It's been a while since I have been able to play Jeeps and the yards I once frequented have all shut down.
     
  18. Apr 1, 2017
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

    Silverton, OR
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    The Classic Enterprises panels I used Lower Cowl and Rear Side Panels were made OK. I had some issues which after talking to CE appear to be non typical of their stuff. I had to section 1/8" out of the Left Rear side panel just outside of the joint with the Tail light panel for it to match up with the Wheel house. And a hopping 5/8" out of the right side, Which I also had to do some fixing to the top of the curve where it was ground down way to thin to try to hide some other problem I guess. The tail light panels were fine. The Lower cowl sections had the Body angle joint about 3/4" back to far and had to be cut back and rebent. This could be due to them being made to fit various models of Jeep. I have not worked with any other sheet metal so I don't know how this compares to other repop metal.
     
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