Ross, Saginaw or Herms steering boxes

According to Warloch on this website there are definite differences between the Novak and Sanderson versions. do a search and see for yourself.

 

P.S......nowhere in Advance adapters current online catalog do they list a block hugger header for a Dauntless V6....god knows I've been looking for a while now.

 

Let me rephrase that......I've seen them both on Jeeps and did not see any Day or Night differences between the two sets.........Novak's site also make's it very clear that they may not fit all applications especially w/ Ross steering..........

Take another look!

717041-HDR : Inside Frame Rail ,Buick 225 & 231 Conversion headers | Advance Adapters

 

you need to take another I think. those headers are for a v6 in a Toyota vehicle not a CJ. there was a member here who had these test fitted in his Jeep with a V6 and the photos showed that they sorta fit but if you look close the tubes flared out right where your steering shaft would be after it came thru the firewall. Like I said I have been searching all over for shorty headers for the Dauntless and if you go to warloch.com you will see the headers he worked with Novak via Sanderson to work out the kinks as far as steering fitment. With the tight clearances with Herms setup or Saginaw steering it doesn't have to be much to make it fit let alone a day or Night difference between the two sets. Besides if the Novak and Sanderson were actually the same header you would think Sanderson would list the headers in a jeep application for extra sales.

 

Rdynes01 ...............I guess I'm missing your point , What headers are you making reference to that are for a V6 in a Toyota?...........The Sandersons or Advance?

I've done a fare share of these conversions and one thing that has always remained constant is that no two conversions will be the same.........debating whether or not either will fit is a waste of time . As I mentioned above when doing a steering swap you better have all the parts on the ground in front of you that you plan to use ...........and be prepared to either modify some or all in the process ..................just the way things work out.

Were you able to find the link I provided to the Advance Adapter headers that you could not find?.............

Those pipes have been used by a member here in the past.
inside the frame headers for buick 225 | EarlyCJ5.com

 

I was referring to a kit vs. kit comparison which for some beginners may be a better way to go with something as critical as a steering conversion. Of course you can always use cannibalized parts from a junkyard and save serious money but for some people a kit with safety already engineered in is preferred......Bob

 

Tarry99 you are right about having all parts together for trial fit and the headers from A/A are the ones I was referring to. if you look at the photos of the inside the frame headers from A/A you will see what I mean about the tight fit on the driver's side and possible interference with a steering shaft. Also for whatever reason the builder decided to go with fenderwell headers anyway. I wonder why?

 

Personally I prefer the reverse steer setup. I have Herm's kit & I used a power box off a 3/4 ton ford truck from the wrecking yard with super low miles. I have a ls6 in mine & it's a little tight, but there's still plenty of room in my opinion to do whatever you need.

 

Post your Pictures.....

 

What year(S) would I get a 3/4 box from?

 

I'll post pic's up Tarry as soon as I figure out how or my son does it for me lol. Robert the box I used was off of a 96 f250. I believe just about any box from the mid 80's to late 90's off of a f250 will work with Herm's kit. The route I went was probably a little more expensive, because I had to relocate my alternator to the passenger side & move my power steering pump up to make room for the steering box, but that was because of my engine choice.

 

I'm not a fan of the Ford boxes. May or may not be an issue in a Jeep depending on how it's used but I've seen waaaayyyyyy too many with twisted or broken sector shafts. Even on stock vehicles. Add larger tires and it's worse. They tend to wear out fairly quickly also.
I prefer the Saginaw conversion as it frees up much needed engine bay space, doesn't interfere with the power steering pump, and the radiator is not typically an issue.

 

My alternator is already on the passenger side and I have found an "upper" bracket and high volume Saginaw PS pump. What is considered "low mileage"?

Robert

 

Remans I've seen wear out in as low as 20,000 miles. That is secondary to a steering box that breaks. Like I said, may not be an issue on a Jeep, but when I do a suspension and steering inspection on any earlier Ford one of the things I look at very carefully is that sector shaft. About 3 out of 5 have a twist to them. One of my students replaced one on his Ford truck just this week...

 

I am totally in the dark about which way to go here. I value everyone's opinions and insight. Fact, I am installing Sanderson Headers, I have lifted the Jeep about 3 inches, I plan on using larger tires than the 32.5s once I am done, the only way I can get clearance for the header is to send them back and get them Dimpled 3/8s of an inch max and that may not be enough. This is why the Ross steering is out and I am looking at the Saginaw or Herm's setup. I guess what I need is the pro's and con's of both boxes so I can compare side by side. I am the kind of person who wants the best available update to slove my delimia and how a quality and sound and safe box that will not give me problems down the road. I know every situation is different when it comes to upgrades and fabrications so I have always turned to the individuals here to share their knowledge and expertise.


Robert

 

Here's the only pic's I have at the moment, these were from the mock up with the 5.3 in it. I'll try to get some more pictures of the finished setup soon, when I get the chance.

 

I agree with Nick 100%.............And we all like to be creative with our builds and I've seen many many attempts to add some creativeness to the Jeep steering system when the word Ross comes up......but I really think the engineers at Jeep / AMC had it pretty much right when they went Saginaw up front in a conventional location around 1973..........it just works and is out of the way!

 

The saginaw conversion is fairly easy, done many times and the box is relatively cheap and readily available. Its what I have done. The box being out of the engine bay makes everything easier. The only drawback is the need to box the frame horn, but you get to use stock steering parts if you're using a D30, have less issue with exhaust and radiator placement is not an issue.

 

If the Saginaw box is much better than the Ford box why did I just come across a post in the tech section that showed several guys fabbing up steering box reinforcement for their Saginaw boxes? just wondering......bob

 

Hey Bob ............everyone is welcome to an Opinion , and I'm sure that not everyone uses there Jeep in the same way that you may. Others that have bigger tires like to use braces to keep away from frame flex.

One thing that is undeniable about the Saginaw system is that it pretty much dominates the Street , Trail and off road steering gear industry and has for many years. Notwithstanding it also enjoys more support than any other system.

Not sure what vintage Ford Reverse Rotation Gear box you have but as Nick M mentioned above they have done recall after recall on those gear boxes for years that came out of the Bronco's , Vans and Pick-up trucks.........fact is for years the re-buildable cores were in short supply after it was found that like 8 out of 10 returned were junk internally.

Stick with your Ford if that is what you like , and others I'm sure will stick with there Saginaw's.