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Ross, Saginaw or Herms steering boxes

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Roberts1969CJ, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Feb 19, 2016
    Roberts1969CJ

    Roberts1969CJ Member

    Germantown,...
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
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    81
    Okay, I know there has been volumes written about steering boxes. I currently have a Ross box that has been completely rebuilt at a shop in California about a year ago. At the time I wasn't thinking that I would go crazy on my jeep by putting on a 3 inch lift and bigger tires, Sanderson headers, disk brakes in the front and upgrading the rear brakes to 11 inch drums? I was doing some research online and from everything I read said the Ross box is probably the weakest link in the older Jeeps especially if you have changed so much of the Jeep including center of balance and trying to turn much bigger tires. I know Advance Adaptors make a kit for my 69 CJ but it does not include the box the pump, bracket or hoses. Looking at different pictures there are a few different ways to fabricate the box to the front end which includes using a tig welder for attaching to the frame. Herm's setup requires drilling through the frame and bolting on the box. Bolting on a box is okay but of course welding is much stronger. I want to address this issue now before I drop the motor back in and install the new headers. I know there is nothing on the passenger side to interfere with the header but on the drivers side I am afraid the header and exhaust pipe will not work with the Ross box in the way (although tech support at Sanderson stated they should fit with no alterations necessary). I value peoples opinions and insight on this forum. I just think about being out in the middle of nowhere and I have problems with the Ross box and regretting not going to a more robust box. I am long past keeping my Jeep "stock"! In fact if I do upgrade to a good power steering box, I will put my 100% rebuilt Ross box up for sell for the Jeep enthusiast who is looking to keep his or her Jeep 100% original. Thank you for reading my dilemma and I am looking forward to all constructive suggestions, opinions and help this forum has to offer.

    RJ Stein
     
  2. Feb 20, 2016
    Mike C

    Mike C Member

    Austin, TX
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
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    743
    The way I designed my winch mount to sit between the frame rails precludes adding the Saginaw box to the front. And on top of that, my plan is to make no permanent mods so the jeep could be fully restored some day. But I hate the Ross steering setup on my A1. On the MB, not so much, but the bigger tires are a different animal. So I have come to the conclusion for a minimal mod appearance that Herm's reverse setup is the way to go. I will most likely do manual, but a final decision is still to be made.
     
  3. Feb 20, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    BobH likes this.
  4. Feb 20, 2016
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    Apr 4, 2010
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    7,110
    I agree with this.
    My dads 69 CJ, with stock size tires and no lift, the stock steering is adequate.
    My 70 CJ, with 31 inch tires and 2.5" lift, I fought it for years before finally switching to Saginaw. Major improvement!
     
  5. Feb 20, 2016
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Shoe salesman 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Maryland
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    Mar 23, 2008
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    2,169
    Saginaw power dont look back. Even wrestling 31's off road with a Ross turns you into a gorilla with hamburger hands.
     
  6. Feb 20, 2016
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    May 25, 2006
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    The only real solution is to use a Saginaw box. I would estimate that 90% of vintage Jeeps that actually get driven on the road have a Saginaw swap on them. The steering and brakes are the two most important systems on a vehicle and the ones that Jeep was 20 years behind in technology until 1972.
     
  7. Feb 20, 2016
    rdynes01

    rdynes01 Member

    Colorado
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2008
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    113
    I'm on my second herm's kit and using a manual box to simplify install, I would pick it over Saginaw due to ease of install and overall cost. the bolt on bracket is plenty beefy for four wheeling and for any situation sort rock crawling it almost one finger steering. With Herm's kit and rebuilt box off ebay , I have less than half the cost of AA's kit with a rebuilt Saginaw box. Also with Herm's kit the box is behind the crossmember which gives you more flexibility mounting bumpers, winches etc. Just my 2 cents....Bob
     
  8. Feb 20, 2016
    Roberts1969CJ

    Roberts1969CJ Member

    Germantown,...
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
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    81
    I spoke with Herm about a year ago when I purchased his disk/drum brake upgrade. If I remember correctly he said something about getting a Ford box from JC Whitney or any other chain store. Since my memory is not as it once was could you please tell me exactly what I need to upgrade my steering using Herm's setup. I do think I can smuggle a few extra dollars and add power steering as long as my wife doesn't think I have gone overboard again. By the way, anyone interested in a completely rebuilt Ross box...LOL
     
  9. Feb 20, 2016
    rdynes01

    rdynes01 Member

    Colorado
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    Jun 8, 2008
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    113
    herm's website tells you exactly what boxes to look for and from what year and what vehicles. I found the right box, rebuilt for like 150-200 bucks shipped on e bay.
     
  10. Feb 20, 2016
    Roberts1969CJ

    Roberts1969CJ Member

    Germantown,...
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2015
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    Yes, I ddid read Herm's recommendations for a box and found a remanufactured box for a 1996 Ford Bronco at Napa for 138. Now I have to decide if I want a 30 or 36 spline box (slow or fast - any insight). I was looking on line for a power steering pump and bracket and the available pumps I saw were for Saginaw boxes. Will a pump designed for a Saginaw work with a ford box? Additionally will I need to make custom P/S lines?
     
  11. Feb 21, 2016
    rdynes01

    rdynes01 Member

    Colorado
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    Jun 8, 2008
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    Saginaw pump will work fine you just need to get proper brackets for your particular engine and keep in mind that on driver's side where the pump would go that with the Ford box where it is , space is at a premium so the correct brackets are important. It's one of the reasons I went to a manual box but hoses for a Saginaw pump to a Ford box shouldn't be that difficult.
     
  12. Feb 24, 2016
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    Aug 7, 2003
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    I'd put the engine back in with the headers before doing anything with the steering. There are plenty of ways to change the routing of the steering shaft and the hoses to clear your headers. If you do the steering first you may create a real nightmare for yourself trying to fit the headers in. The steering shaft typically runs very close to the exhaust manifold.
    Steering Shaft 001.jpg Steering Shaft 002.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2016
  13. Feb 25, 2016
    rdynes01

    rdynes01 Member

    Colorado
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    Jun 8, 2008
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    One other thing to consider is that you said you were going to use the Sanderson headers on your jeep . keep in mind that they make the Novak headers for the V6 but tweak them for more steering clearance on the Jeep whereas the Sanderson versions are for street rod applications and may not fit as well. Just a thought.....Bob
     
  14. Feb 25, 2016
    Roberts1969CJ

    Roberts1969CJ Member

    Germantown,...
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    Jan 5, 2015
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    I wish I was told about Novak Headers before someone here recommended
    Sanderson Headers. I assume Sanderson have a drawback and not designed for off road. If I told you how much stuff I bought and didn't work you would be amazed, but that is why there's a classified forum here.
     
  15. Feb 25, 2016
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    I'm not sure that there is any difference between the pipes be it bought direct from Sanderson or via Novak..............Yes , Sanderson does make the headers for Novak..........I've seen Sanderson headers for a V6 Buick that fits a Jeep or streetrod for that matter..........I seen no noticeable difference between the Novak version or the ones direct from Sanderson..........both are priced the same............Advanced Adapters also make a Block Hugger.

    Whatever you decide on........those pipes , the steering gear , your modified column , U-joints , PS pump & brackets should all be in your hand before you attempt any Power Steering Installation..........One or all may dictate what may have to move or be modified to fit.
     
  16. Feb 25, 2016
    Turiwks

    Turiwks New Member

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    I'm interested! PM me a price if you're serious about selling it!
     
  17. Feb 25, 2016
    Roberts1969CJ

    Roberts1969CJ Member

    Germantown,...
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    Jan 5, 2015
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    I am very serious. Look in the Jeep classifieds and you can see my post there.
     
  18. Feb 25, 2016
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
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    A $25 box at pull a part, 4 bolts and a piece of flat stock is more expensive then?
     
  19. Feb 25, 2016
    Roberts1969CJ

    Roberts1969CJ Member

    Germantown,...
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    Jan 5, 2015
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    Not to sound dumb, but what exactly are you saying to me? I can find everything I need at a junk yard???
     
  20. Feb 25, 2016
    Daryl

    Daryl Sponsor

    Bonney Lake, WA
    Joined:
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    For a Saginaw steering box that came in most domestic vehicles for over 20 years, yes. A Saginaw swap really can be as simple as grabbing a box, welding a plate on your frame and bolting up a steering column. There is a sticky on this forum on just Saginaw swaps. It is probably the single most universal upgrade for Jeeps from 1942 to 1971.
     
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