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F4 YF Backfiring through carb

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Howard Eisenhauer, May 25, 2014.

  1. May 25, 2014
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Need some advice here folks- I've got Tonk running but coming off idle I'm getting backfiring through the carb. If I pull the throttle slowly the engine will speed up without backfire, once above idle it doesn't happen

    I've verified that the timing gears are correctly lined up.

    Valves are set for 16/18 thou intake-exhaust.

    New distributor/points/condensor/cap/coil/wires/plugs.

    Dwell is 42º

    Timing at idle is steady right on 5º BTDC, advance is working smoothly & is steady.

    Carb float & metering rod have been set per the FSM, idle jet set for a half turn out from lean stumble.

    Compression is 120-125-120-130


    [video=youtube;haEaZ4-TN2Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haEaZ4-TN2Q&feature=youtu.be[/video]


    Anyone seen this before? Any ideas?

    Thanks,

    H.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  2. May 25, 2014
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
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    Vacuum leak?

    Otherwise, I'd say bad/dirty points, possibly, although you have checked the dwell. Did you clean the new ones of factory residue? That has caught me before.

    I might say an accelerator pump issue, (e.g. leaky discharge valve will pump less fuel) but it seems to persist longer than that would...

    Correct metering rod? (There are several variants as I'm sure you already know.)

    Water contamination in the carb?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  3. May 26, 2014
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    The carb is a new one, albeit from Turkey, so everything *should* be good. I've known others who got one of these from the same source & they worked perfectly. I actually bolted the original carb back on & it still backfired although it was worse than the new one- not sure what that proves one way or the other :(

    H.
     
  4. May 27, 2014
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    "New distributor/points/condensor/cap/coil/wires/plugs."

    One of my rules of thumb is to suspect the newest parts first...
     
  5. May 28, 2014
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    My thought is the mechanical advance weights are not coming in with proper amount at the proper time.
     
  6. May 28, 2014
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Too much advance too soon? That might fit the symptoms.
     
  7. May 28, 2014
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    There's a thought- I'll pop the old distributor back in & see what happens.

    I'm also wondering if it could be carbon buildup- I dumped about a liter of oil down the intake manifold when I finished the engine rebuild about 5 years ago & it really had nowhere to go- however I can't say that the exhaust is particularly smoky. I note that plug # 1 is rather sooty after about an hours run time, 2 is clean & 3 & 4 are a little sooty. The residue in the carb thorat after the backfires occur is kinda greasy as well.

    H.
     
  8. May 28, 2014
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Is it backfire or is it really spitting fuel. I can't see any flame in the video (but could be). Maybe fuel pressure too high. Just another thought...
     
  9. May 28, 2014
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    "when I finished the engine rebuild about 5 years ago"

    Five years.... have you checked for squirrels? :)
     
  10. May 28, 2014
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    I'll check the fuel pressure as well. We may be bumping into a difference in terminology here as some people consider "backfire" to be an exhaust event & explosions out the carb as "spitting". Whatever you call it there's definitely flame involved.

    H.
     
  11. May 28, 2014
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    That carburetor cough when you first open the throttle is likely the accelerator pump. Some crud in the line is getting into the pump area and restricting the flow maybe. Try running some SeaFoam through the carb. I do it by disconnecting the intake line to the fuel pump and putting a flexible line into a can of Seafoam and running the engine, sucking up the can full.
     
  12. May 28, 2014
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    One more question- Should I not be able to stall the engine at idle by closing the idle mixture screw? I can turn it in all the way but the engine keeps (roughly) running.
     
  13. May 28, 2014
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    O.K., if there is flame involved, something is igniting the fuel mixture in the intake manifold, and it is usually an indication that somehow a combustion event is getting back into the intake. Only a couple ways to do this AFAIK------stuck/chipped/leaking intake valve, or a cylinder is firing while the valve is still open during its normal motion.

    I have seen a burned through heat riser in the intake manifold do this--------but that was on a Chevy V8-------not sure if your manifold even has the heat riser passage.

    Have you done a compression check ? Or better yet, a leak down check??
     
  14. May 28, 2014
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

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    Compression is 120-125-120-130

    This is only happening coming off idle while goosing the throttle- that's what's got me confused, i'd think that a leaky valve would be causing events at any throttle setting.

    H.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  15. May 28, 2014
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

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    Howard, I have to agree that it should be happening all the time, but something has to be igniting the mixture in the manifold.

    Perhaps the ignition source is there continuously, but you are only giving it a air/fuel ratio that will light off when you open the throttle????
     
  16. May 28, 2014
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Administrator Staff Member

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    That's why I wondering if there's some carbon from the burnt leftovers of the oil I poured in there staying hot enough to light off the mixture while it's Stil being drawn into the cylinder.

    H.
     
  17. May 28, 2014
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

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    Old trick I learned many years ago, take off the air cleaner, run the engine at 1500 or so RPM, and slowly pour a cup or two of water into the carb---------dont let the engine die, pour the water slowly.

    This does a good job of cleaning out the combustion chamber of excess carbon buildup.
     
  18. May 28, 2014
    Walt Couch

    Walt Couch sidehill Cordele, Ga. 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    That should completely shut it down. Sounds like a gasket is blocking a hole some-where but you said you swapped carbs with nearly the same results?

    Ref: post #12.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  19. May 29, 2014
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

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    Get a '0' gauge needle, like maybe from an epipen (bee sting kit for people allergic to nuts or bee-stings), mount it in a vacuum line with the point towards the carb/intake manifold. the other end of the line goes into a small jug of water. The needle will act like a sprayer for a very fine stream of water, which will steam clean the valves and combustion chamber. Busts up the carbon build-up. Might sound weird, but military aircraft used something similar during WWII for power boosting during combat. And in F-head engines, with the carb mounted directly to the head the way it is, that system acts like a heat riser in a chevy or dodge engine.
     
  20. May 29, 2014
    Danefraz

    Danefraz Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Didn't / doesn't GM make a product called "top engine cleaner" which you fed into the intake similarly to choke out the engine and let it sit, then when fired back up, the soot would exit the building so to speak...

    I used it before as a dump in tank efi injector cleaner on my 90 ranger 4L v6 when it started running rough once, worked like a charm.

    ive seen reference it's the same as seafoam, can't say inter web rumors are true. See other comments about Lucas fuel treatment, have no experience there...
     
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