swapping the F heaad for an Iron Duke... problems

hi. trying to get an Iron Duke from a 1981 cj5 into my 1966 cj5a. running into clearance problems. mine has the 3 spd column shift and original Ross steering setup. seem like everything on the drivers side is hitting something... brake pedal into the bell, steering arm off the box into the engine, steering sector rubbing, etc. i'm using the Novak adapter kit. i did check all the manuals from both Novak and Advance Adapters and didn't see anything about those kinds of clearance issues with the sbc's , much less my little Iron Duke. there was nothing about having to swap to saginaw steering, getting rid of the heater box to redo the brakes, etc. what did i miss? what did i screw up making this swap? :?
any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Certainly does not sound right, is the motor offset? That is about all I can think of, I know it is suppose to be mounted more to one side than the other

 

Just thinking out loud here, because I've never seen this particular swap, but it sounds like a lot of trouble for not a lot of gain.
Remember, just because you have a particular engine, doesn't make it a good swap candidate.

 

yeah, i know the little iron duke isn't the best, but i was trying to keep my column shifter intact. all the other options (4.3, sbc, sbf) would have made me switch to the top shifter for sure.
the engine is offset just slightly, maybe 1-1.5 inches to the drivers side as part of the adapter setup. never done his stuff before. thinking i'll loose my heater for sure so i can convert to a swinging clutch, brake pedal, and new master cyl. also probably go with a saginaw steering setup to clear everything close to the frame.
just a little frustrating. thanks for the help.

 

Are you swapping in just the engine, or are you also swapping in the tranny/tc too?

 

That CJ5 heater is a mess to work around- it's bulky and just gets in the way. On the DJ, I put in a heater centered in the firewall and got rid of the stock heater (it's the same heater as the CJs have). Then put in swinging pedals, etc.

Sounds like you wanted to keep the jeep as original as possible, but if you are going so far as changing out the engine, might as well upgrade the pedals, steering and brakes. That alone may give you enough extra room to keep the shifting mechanism in place. And you'll enjoy the rig more.

The Iron Duke is a different choice, for sure. In my DJ, I elected to keep my Chevy 153, so no swapping involved there. People call it an Iron Duke, but they are different engines. You won't find a lot of love on the forum for swapping in a 4 banger. The only one I think is worthwhile is the big brother to the 153 and that is the Mercruiser 3.0 (181 cubic inches). Do a bit of work to it and it will put out a reliable 140+HP. Uses all the SBC adaptors when hooking up to a T90.

 

hi 1960willy, keeping the original tranny and tc. just the engine being swapped in.

thanks for the help there gunner. i figured the heater would have to go. kinda sucks way up here in northern Minnesota, but i have back-ups. have a compact under seat bus type hot water heater and i'm buying a real 12v gasoline heater on monday. it's nos, complete with all mounting hardware and manual in the original box. i think it's a bargain at $150.
i'm looking at pedals now. only concern is that they may want to hit the floor in these early cj's, idk. new master cyl will be ordered as well. i don't think i'll need to spend the big bucks for power brakes as cj is so light and i don't plan on doing really heavy duty things with it. i have a 'wanted' ad posted for saginaw steering conversion parts here and in other forums. i already (just by luck) have a manual saginaw gear box and mounting bracket. all i need are the tie rods, shafts, etc.
re the merc 3.0, i've seen some forums where they've done the mods to the pontiac iron duke. it seems it shares the same block but with obvious mods to get that kind of power out of it. nice thing is the marine mods are as much for torque to turn the prop as for hp. maybe once the swap is complete, i'll check into what i can do for mine to boost it a bit.
thanks all, for the help.

 

If I was going for a 4 cyclinder it would be the Ford 2.3 without question. Great engine and can make just as much HP as a stock V6. I was going to put one in mine until a whole 4.3 fell into my lap

Power brakes are definitely not need but swapping to 11 inch drums is a big help. Disc on the front would probably be nice also

Power steering is not needed either but I would still get a saginaw box because the Ross system is so bad.

That engine is sitting in the right place, I am surprised it interferes with anything besides the heater. The heater can be swapped for many things and as said is bulky and gets in the way of just about any swap

 

The Iron Duke is a different engine from the Chevy153/181. The less you try to compare the two, the clearer your idea of them will be. The 181 is essentially a stroked 153 with a better flowing head. The 153 is the original Nova engine from the 60s. The marine versions are primarily different due to manifolds, bellhousings and the like. The long blocks aren't much different. My Chevy 153 had a hammered block- it now sports a Mercruiser 120 block. Same thing, just was originally in a boat motor. I don't know of anything that swaps between the ID and the 153.

I have wondered if the TBI from a 151 can be adapted to the 153.

The suggestion for a Ford 2.3 is no doubt a good one also. It's a more modern design, for sure, as the 153/181 was basically designed in the early 60s. But the Chevy 4 is a very robust, old school engine. It will depend on what you want. I did not want to adapt an engine, so stayed with the stock set up.

 

In principle, the idea of swapping in a more modern 4 cyl engine has merit. More HP & RPM capability without overtaxing the stock drive train. I've seen a number of the aforementioned Pinto swaps and they work well.
But, once you're talking about making major modifications, you might as well go for a v6. (or V8 )
Just my 2 cents...

 

still would like to see pictures

 

it will be next week before i can get any pics. i'll be out of town for a few days and it's in a buddy's heated shop for the conversion.
i have enough money in the novak kit that to switch over to the ford 2.3 wouldn't be worth it. when i first checked this out, no 4 cyl fords were to be found and the swap just looked to be easier as it was so close to doing a sbc. this one also leaves me the advantage of going to a 4.3 in a few years if i think i need something more. right now this little iron duke will be a big improvement over the f head.
one interesting thing i found was in looking for a radiator for the swap. mine was leaking and to re-core it they wanted over $200. new ones were twice that. it just so happens that the radiator from an early-mid 1970's bmw 2002 fits in great and even a couple of the holes on the mounting flange match up! cooling should be good to go as those little beamers were high revving little engines generating more heat than the iron duke. best part was it looks like it's nearly new and only $50 incl shipping!
thanks to everyone for their help here. really appreciate it.

 

Just one big jigsaw puzzle. Most people do swap over to Saginaw steering whenever doing any swap, so it may be a given instead of a look out for this on a knowledge site. It will all fit, I have put in several 151, 153 GM motors in Jeeps. Just have to look at all the pieces and see where everything needs to go to fit it all in. There is no such thing as a "bolt-in" conversion. With a welder and some fabrication skills, anything can be made to fit.

 

with my 4.3 the t90 is moved 1" to the passenger side from stock, for and aft is stock. with an 11" clutch it needs a remote res brake master cyl and saginaw steering, but i still have the placebo heater and floor pedals? is this tbi or carb?

post pics, and make sure to check your timing set, i got an s10 for scrap price because the fiber gear was unlaminated from the hub.

 

Someone on here did the swap a few years ago. It was one of our European members. Had pics too

 

mine has the carb on the engine. trying to get all the pieces together for the saginaw swap. as i have two other heaters i can probably just get rid of the stock heater and put in the swing mounted clutch and brake pedals with a master there.

 

I have a customer that put a 181 4 cylinder in an M-38. Nice fit and he had custom fool injection built for it. It is his daily driver and works quite well. He even tows an enclosed utility trailer with it and seems very happy with the setup.
First engine conversion I ever helped with was a Chev 153 into Dad's '43 GPW. Doubled hp but started breaking rear axle and diff parts (stock 23-2 axle).
It all depends on what your final goal is and expectations are.


Sent from my iPhone

 

As for the heater, when I changed my 62 over to swing pedals I moved the heater to the right side of the firewall. I just flipped the inside box to blow to the left and flipped the outside box turning the heater core outlets down.

Scott

 

thanks guys. the two heaters i have, one is the bus under seat type, the other is a 20k btu gasoline heater. being in northern Minnesota, heat and defrost are big concerns in the winter.
this will be a dd. it will also be pulling a small trailer from time to time. i have stock 4.27 gears with a detroit in the back and a saturn od. i figure with this engine swap, i should be fine.