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Cage build suggestions

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by ggreenwood37, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Feb 20, 2014
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    First off, Thank you to everyone on this site. I've learned enough to be dangerous, acquired more tools and parts than I ever thought imaginable and spent countless hours in my garage for therapy.

    Ok, so I'm almost to the point where my '59 will be ready and I keep having visions of the unspeakable. I don't plan to wheel it very much, but the windshield set up is rather flimsy there is nothing to prevent it from coming back into me or my wifes face in the event of *something. She came with a roll-bar (the jeep, not the wife), so i decided to get this:

    http://extremecustomparts.com/i-145...tras-free-shipping-cj2-cj3-willys-mb-m38.html

    I feel confident with my welding abilities now and I also picked up :

    http://www.pipemastertools.com/viewall.html

    I feel ready to go. I have top mounted wipers, a bikini top, a meyers full and half top as well as a bestop fastback top. The top mounted wipers may be an issue, as they seem like they may be in the way. What have others done? Do I want to trim my cage to be flush with the top of the windshield, or to be a little above to clear the wipers (So the windshield can fold forward)? I've seen pics of other rigs with the cage and top mounted wipers, but nothing from the inside showing how high the front hoop is.

    Any recommendations? I don't plan on diving into this for another few weeks as I have midterms coming up and numerous projects at work, I just want to get a good game plan together.
     
  2. Feb 20, 2014
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
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    3,784
    Welding a cage in is allot of work............what type of welding equipment do you have?..........So are you just adding the front tubes and hoop? Are you tying any of this into the frame?
    Proper welding of tubing is all about the fit between the two pieces your going to attach..........of course the welding is also important but without a good fit strength is compromised.

    On the Extreme Custom add on cage stay away from this option which is barely a step above exhaust tubing.....(Material: 2" O.D. x 1/8" thick Mild Steel H.R.E.W. (Hot Rolled Electric Welded) Tubing. ) and go with the DOM tubing. As far as the pipemaster tool that only gives you a fixture that allows the cut to be traced , you still have to have the ability to cut that shape in the tubing at the correct angle..........some folks use a tool that spins a metal hole saw to cut the notch I like using a vertical mill with a proper sized end mill doing the cutting. Make sure your weld zones are sanded clean and free of any oil.

    As far as height is concerned there is no one answer.........it must fit all of your top options and wiper configurations..............I have installed plenty with top mounted wipers you just have to move that front hoop back or change your windshield to a later 69-75 bottom mounted wiper frame or change the design of the cage to the style that has two down tubes running forward from the main hoop and then a cross brace that can be moved back to miss the wipers. With the style they offer using another hoop forward up against the dash it does make the install in a early CJ a little more difficult , you will also have to watch the location of the lower dash bar so that it does not block your windshield release latches. ...............Good Luck!
     
  3. Feb 20, 2014
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    I forgot to mention, I have an extra later windshield that I could always swap in if needed. I'd prefer to keep the early style windshield, as mine is in better shape than the late that I have as a spare. I have a MIG setup with Argon/Oxygen bottle shielding gas as well as Oxy.

    I got the DOM upgrade and I do not have the jig that would allow me to use a hole saw, searches on this site have said that you can get away with using an angle grinder ( I also have an abrasive chop saw). I was surprised that every tube that needs cut already has one end mitred properly. This rig will be used on pavement 80% of the time, so i don't see a need to tie the cage into the frame. I'm going to fab plates for underneath.
     
  4. Feb 20, 2014
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
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    3,784
    Hey that sounds good..........On your shielding gas you should be using 75% Argon & 25 % CO2 .............and good luck on that pavement 80% of the time!
     
  5. Feb 20, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
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    8,513
  6. Feb 20, 2014
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    That doesn't instill confidence. Although I do appreciate the pics.
     
  7. Feb 20, 2014
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    814
    It cracks me up when people say " i'm just gonna drive it on the street" when it comes to safety. It's more dangerous to drive on the street than most people realize.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
     
  8. Feb 20, 2014
    tymbom

    tymbom Member

    Siskiyou Co.
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    814
    Also, I wouldn't add on to the factory roll bar. Go through the extra expense and build all new roll cage. The factory roll bar isn't designed for what you're doing. It's kinda like buying a 50 dollar helmet. Do you have a 50 dollar head to put in it? If you love your wife enough to put a cage in your rig, do it right so its not falling in on you or punching through your floorboards. Safety is no place to cut corners.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
     
  9. Feb 21, 2014
    Jeepenstein

    Jeepenstein Me like Jeep..

    North Central FL
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,132
    HREW is not that bad as long as you get it in the appropriate wall thickness.. Granted, DOM is better, but we are not talking about NASCAR 200 MPH crashes either..
     
  10. Feb 21, 2014
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
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    88
    I live in the city and have no need to drive on highways or above 30 mph, I literally live downtown and work 3 miles from home. My rig will spend more time idling at stoplights than actually driving. I rode my bicycle to work everyday for 5 years, so the helmet comparison is totally relevant. Thanks for all of the suggestions and feedback everyone.
     
  11. Feb 21, 2014
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
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    8,513
    The red CJ5 was pulling a 15ft house trailer down the freeway.
    The trailer was sideswiped, the tail began to wag the dog and the Jeep went over.
    So that crash was on the freeway at freeway speeds.
    A curious side note is that the owner purchased a new 72 CJ5 and he rolled it later in the sand dunes.
    I have pics of it as well, but it had no cage and the windshield was off for running in the dunes.
    Nobody was seriously hurt in either of his crashes.

    The blue Tuxedo Park Jeep was taken by a teenage son without permission and rolled on the street.
    The high horsepower 350sbc/Muncie 4speed may have had something to do with this one.
    The Tuxedo Park was repaired/rebuilt and kept in use.
    The teenage son wasn't hurt by the crash.....but the dad wasn't too happy with him.

    My point was to show you that crashes can happen at any time; don't assume anything and always be prepared.
     
  12. Feb 21, 2014
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
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    5,466
    I have seen HREW split too many times to trust it with something my life depends upon.

    IF your going to do much fab work, do your self a favor if you can and get the Pro-Tools Notcher. I use mine on cages, bumpers, racks, sliders, all kinds of places where tube goes together or fits with flat stock.
     
  13. Feb 25, 2014
    dubc56

    dubc56 Member

    Illinois
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    125
    Just to kind of riff off this topic...

    How many ft of tube would you say this is? I have access to a bender, and a person that welds. Would it be cheaper to just purchase lengths of DOM tube and fab it up than to purchase these kits?
     
  14. Feb 25, 2014
    ggreenwood37

    ggreenwood37 Member

    Pittsburgh PA
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
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    I can measure everything up for you, if you'd like...
     
  15. Feb 25, 2014
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
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    If I remember right it's just about 2 sticks of DOM for a cage. It depends on how much cross support you put in it and the design.
     
  16. Feb 26, 2014
    dubc56

    dubc56 Member

    Illinois
    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
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    @greenwood

    That would be great!

    @Warloch

    Standard design...and by standard I mean...what amounts to the original aftermarket bar (Over the tub and back) plus the front portion running parallel to the frame rail and then across top of the windshield, and down to the frame.

    Hopefully, that painted a picture for you. I don't have access to a nice shot of one currently available.

    Also, pardon my ignorance on the subject but, 2 "sticks" of DOM? That's just a full length of tube, correct?

    Thanks
     
  17. Feb 26, 2014
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member

    Northern California
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    20 ft per length is the normal stocking length for DOM.
     
  18. Feb 26, 2014
    dubc56

    dubc56 Member

    Illinois
    Joined:
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    125
    So, 40ft of DOM @ 2" OD with .120 wall?

    Looks like $7.50~ft x 40 feet - $300~ for a full cage...as a conservative guesstimate.
     
  19. Feb 26, 2014
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
    Joined:
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    Ya - I don't have my cage pics on my site where they can be seen right now. I did A, B, and C pillars to fit under a soft top. Stretchers across top all three, back side (B and C), across windshield, A to B was done part of square stock for seat mounts, at least one screw up and I used less than 3 sticks. My DOM source sticks run from 19' to 24', but it's priced per foot. I figure $450 to $500 for a cage in material costs (plates for mounts, seat frame integration etc).

    You can see better pics on my site warloch.com if you want to look at it.

    Oh - I use 1 1/5", 1 3/4" and 2" to make my cages with. Seat frames are 1" square stock.
     
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