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The beginning of my '53 CJ3B build/resto

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by BrenGun, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. Apr 10, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    186
    Eric, thanks! Exactly what I was looking for! So it'll work with only three legs/arms? The only ones that I've seen before have five.
    Jeep2003, thanks, yep, gotta clean out those spring perches yet, but luckily think that mine are in good shape.
     
  2. Apr 10, 2011
    EricM

    EricM Active Member

    Southern California
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    1,019
    Yep, I've had good luck with the 3 arm version. Keep the nut on the axle, so the drum won't pop off. Tighten up the puller, then whack on the side of the drum with a hammer, tighten the puller up and repeat. The key is to tighten it up and then whack the drum.
     
  3. May 15, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    FINALLY got some work done today! Worked on Nate's springs (thanks again, Nate! :D) pulling them apart and wire wheeling them down for paint.
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    I had already used some epoxy putty on the radiator bracket and it seems to be holding up pretty well. I need to fill in some of the gaps once I get more putty. I used one tube on it and had to work pretty quickly to get it all in place before it set up, so that's why I have places to fill in yet.

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    And did some more grinding and cleaning on the rear axle. I'm going to fill in that odd sheet metal screw hole and the aforementioned rosette weld pinholes with some epoxy and then get to painting. I still have to yank out the old shoes and clean up the backing plates.
    Also need to ask about the rear output. There's a circular "collar" that is loose and gear oil has leaked out of the output shaft area when the axle wasn't supported on the jackstands and hung straight down so I wasn't too worried about it, but does this mean I need to replace the seal?

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    The current state of the mess... uh, I mean, Mistress and the barn that needs a spring cleaning badly! :D
    So I'm that much closer to getting a rolling chassis done. Just need to pick up some small parts from Walck's and diagnose the condition of the front axle. How do you determine the shape of kingpin bearings? Do the old 12 and 6 o clock grab and pull to see if there's any slop like ball joints?
     
  4. Jun 5, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    More progress and more questions! I splurged on a hub puller as I decided that I'd need it in the future as well so oh well, about one third of my parts budget but its a nice made in the USA hunk of metal. I pulled the hubs and it was amazingly easy. I had heard horror stories of them being a bear to remove and practically exploding off the axle shafts when they released all that stuck on energy. Mine just walked right off. I haven't tried removing them yet, but I'm assuming that the keys in them just pop right out?

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    In the process and...

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    Off!

    I also notice that both hubs have grooves and a ridge that form tapers in them. Is that normal or is this wear? the axle shafts are supposed to be tapered and hoping that the hubs do too.

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    The driver's side had alot of old gear oil/grease that had dried to a molasses like consistency just on the axle castle nut and tip of the axle shaft. There was also evidence of a slow leak that attracted a ton of brake dust that collected on the backing plate. On the up side, the bolts holding the backing plate on were nicely lubricated and came off easily unlike the passenger side. As I got first the passenger and then driver's side off I noticed two things.
    One: there were no lock washers on the bolts holding the backing plate on on the L side unlike the opposite side and
    Two: that the order of the attaching hardware was different on each side. L. side= thin conical dust shield, thicker cone shape plate, flat plate, brake backing plate and three shims. The R side where there was no evidence of a leak had thin conical dust shield, then brake backing plate, THEN thicker cone shaped plate, flat plate and three shims. I'm guessing that someone took it apart and replaced things incorrectly? Just tried checking an old service manual and Moses Ludel's book but does anyone have the correct order?
    And do I have to pull the axle shafts to get to those first bearings, the ones that are lubricated by the grease fittings on the outside of the axle tube?

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    Also took a pic of the finished radiator and fan guard. No, its not painted white, just the glare...

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    Finished assembling the last one of Nate's springs (thanks again Nate!) and ground down and painted the spring perches.

    And this is what we have left...

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jun 6, 2011
    PieLut

    PieLut Member

    Glendale, Arizona
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    464
    The left side seems to be correct. From outboard in you should have, hub cap (dust shield), hub, grease protector (cone shaped plate you referred to), thin paper gasket, brake backing plate, bearing retainer, then shims.
    Yes you have to pull the axles to get to the bearings. The bearings are pressed on the axle. I put the hub back on (not all the way) to help removed the axles. There is also an oil seal behind the bearing. Some people choose to leave them out, so you may not find them. I put them in when I rebuilt my axles.
     
  6. Jun 6, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    PieLut, do you mean the Right side? The right side had the bearing retainer and shims behind the backing plate while the left had everything but the shims in front of the backing plate.
     
  7. Jun 6, 2011
    PieLut

    PieLut Member

    Glendale, Arizona
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    464
    The shims and retainer should be behind or inboard of the backing plate. A picture always helps. :D Jonah

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  8. Jun 6, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    :beer: Thanks, Jonah! Perfect! So it looks like the L one that appears to have leaked was correct and the rusted R side that looks like it hasn't been torn apart since it was assembled was incorrect... hmmm, that's strange. I don't know if there were any gaskets around the grease retainer, maybe that would explain it.
     
  9. Jun 27, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    Little more done today. Pulled the axle shafts using the old using the drum as a slide hammer technique. The shafts, bearings and cups look pretty good, so clean them up a bit and repack them and stuff them back in.

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    Managed to loosen the pinion shaft nut with a bit of ingenuity and an old leaf spring, but still confused as to whether the pinion shaft oil seal is there? Is this it pressed in? The only things that came off were the nut, (missing a washer...), the pinion yoke and the dust shield which sits on there very loosely and rattles around.

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  10. Jun 28, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    Any ideas as to the missing washer? I'm guessing that only way to pull the seal out is with a slide hammer, right? No SH so guess that I'll just replace the washer and cross my fingers.
     
  11. Jul 12, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    I found a cheap source for shocks, $10 each for Monroes! Its honestly held me up not being able to afford $100 for a complete set. I've bought parts for my TJ and the Lib from RockAuto.com before but never thought to check them as an alternative source for the Mistress. They actually have alot of stuff and I was pleasantly surprised by the price for the shocks. Now to scrape up the $40 for these, paint and scrape the backing plates and I'm getting closer to a rolling chassis!
     
  12. Sep 1, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
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    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    So I finally got around to degreasing and repainting and was putting the rear axle back together today when I got confused. The bearing cup doesn't fit back into the axle tube. I know that its a pressed fit but how do you safely get it back in there? The shims fit over it but the bearing retainer plate doesn't fit flush with the axle tube flange. Is the cup simply pressed back into place when you tighten down the nuts and bolts holding on the brake backing plate or how is it done?
     
  13. Sep 1, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
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    Anyone have an idea? I'd like to get this back together tomorrow. Am I overlooking something simple?
     
  14. Sep 12, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
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    Some stuff that I haven't been able to find in my manual... torque specs for...
    1) Pinion nut (that holds on shaft yoke...)
    2) Brake backing plate to axle tube lip
    TIA [​IMG]
     
  15. Sep 16, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
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    Hope to have some photos up by Sunday. I torqued up the backing plates and put the hubs and keys back in finishing up the rear axle and started putting it back into place. The frame is starting to look like a jeep again! The only thing that will hold me up for a bit is having to order new pivot bolts for the rear springs. I had wrapped them up with duct tape and labeled them when I disassembled the axle months ago and just failed to notice how worn nearly through they were. Not safe at all!
    And am I missing anything or are the shocks really held in place just by washers and cotter pins through the lower shock mounting plates? My old factory manual shows mounting plates with threaded pins for a nut, but all four of my plates are just plain pins with a hole for a cotter pin, the way I remember them coming off the jeep.
     
  16. Sep 18, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    [​IMG]

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    As promised, the rear axle is back in place. Still need new drums or to see if they can be turned and no brakes inside yet or plumbing, but hey its starting to look like a jeep again even if only a tiny bit! :D The only thing left will be putting the pins back in that are coming from my friend, Doug! Thanks again, man! Its nice being a part of a brotherhood that looks out for one another!
    Started to scrub off tons of old dirt and grease from the front... Ran into some stubborn screws in the drums on the right... Hope that a shot of PB Blaster will loosen them up.
    Then onto the engine...! Who knows, if I can find the time I may have a driveable chassis yet by the end of the year! :D
     
  17. Sep 25, 2011
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    Thanks again to my friend Doug for the pivot bolts. The Mistress is now sitting on her old rear tires once more.
    The engine needs to be cleaned up and painted and a tune up done to it and then to tear into the front axle which is now sitting on the jack stands where the 44 was not too long ago. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that the donor engine is well enough to run as the PO had stated and will be good enough with just a carb rebuild and tuneup stuff done to it. I plan on removing the pan when I have the engine cradled back in the frame and checking out the pickup screen. And I can always do a ring job in chassis if need be, so here's to hoping!

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  18. Jun 15, 2012
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    [​IMG]
    How the Mistress is currently sitting, engine propped up with scrap lumber and on engine mounts!


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    Back of the flywheel. What's involved with cleaning this up? Some light grit sandpaper for the rust spots left by the disc and degreaser? Other than the 'ghost' image left by the clutch disc, it seems in good shape, not obviously worn down or glazed, all teeth intact...


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    Flywheel side of the clutch disc, some wear, but I am not sure how much is too much. It DOES have a bit of grease and schmutz on it, so maybe I should just replace it?


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    Pressure plate side, again, not much wear.


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    Pressure plate. Looks good to me. The three fingers all work smoothly and are hopefully adjusted fine.


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    Rear view.


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    And the bellhousing that I spent some time degreasing and scraping a pound of dirt and grease from before painting.
    I may as well replace the pilot bearing while I'm at right, right? And the throwout bearing seems to move pretty smoothly, but probably just another replaceable part?
     
  19. Jul 21, 2012
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    Ok, I finally had the time to start with tearing into the T90 today and it came apart (mainly...) as slick and simple as butter... that is once I took a better look at things and took my time. That problem that I was having with the main shaft was due to not having taken out the two bolts for the oil collector. Once that was done the countershaft came out easily, dropped the cluster gear and with a little finagaling with the oil collector the main shaft came right out! Between Doug's write-up and this one-http://www.cj-3a.com/T-90%20Rebuild.htm by Rick Stivers its all started to make some sense. I ran into a bit of trouble with having to remove some washers from the end of the cluster gear in order to be able to move it around a bit more so that I could get the oil collector out and then the mainshaft. Now for the big problem, the reverse idler gear shaft... I'm using a 3/4" wooden dowel instead of a brass punch but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to drive it out. You cannot get at it in a straight line and I've tried the C-clamp idea that Stivers suggests too, but so far, nothing... Wish me luck with a bit of sleep tonight that I may have more luck with it.
     
  20. Jul 21, 2012
    BrenGun

    BrenGun Just Some Guy

    Maine
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
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    186
    So, been giving this alot of thought lately and here's roughly what I hope to accomplish this summer/fall.
    First off, the Mistress is sitting on her rear axle with the engine on blocks in the rear and on the mounts in front.
    I need to do the following:
    1) Finish disassembling the T90, clean the accumulated 1-2" of solid dirt, mud and grease from the case, rebuild and paint it.
    2)I also took the flywheel off today to try and figure out if there's an easier way of getting the front crankshaft pulley nut off without an impact wrench. I actually have a cheap-o HF one, but after a couple of uses it's broken... figures... Wish that I could afford a decent Milwaukee or something but not right now. How much can you reasonably expect to degrease a flywheel? I mean, mine isn't covered in grease where the clutch disk touches, but the exterior of that is sorta sticky to the touch like old, old dried grease has been flung up and sullied it up over the past 60 years. Other than that it isn't scored up nor does it look really bad, but should it be ground down at all? Also need to get the pilot bushing replaced using the old grease method, change the clutch and throw out bearing.
    3) In general I need to scrape and degrease and eventually paint the entire engine. After that a general tune up is in order, rebuild the carb and get all the other misc. plumbing done for fuel and oil lines.
    I'll need to take care of the broken studs on the exhaust manifold and I may even try it myself once I get a decent corded drill and a few new taps. My old Dewalt cordless needs its brushes replaced (I think... screeches like a banshee if you do anything other than drill a simple hole in soft wood...) I'm inspired by this writeup and I think that I can do it if I take my time with it. Otherwise I think that a startup of the engine can manage with the manifold as it is if I can get the old section of exhaust pipe out of the manifold's flange until I get to the repair and new studs. It seems pretty solidly attached to the block but who knows if there is or isn't a leak there.
    Then I have to pull the head and hopefully get it all torqued down correctly. The two bolts in either corner aren't flush with the top of the head and I'm hoping that Bubba didn't try to replace two of the head bolts with two slightly longer bolts. The top of the head is also covered with some old foul oil in small pools. Bad rings or guides? Guess that I'll check compression when I can as well and possibly do a ring job with the engine installed.
    4) As soon as I get the T90 back in place and the the transfer case degreased, rebuilt and painted (and with hopefully no new parts needed other than the basic gasket and oil seal set that I ordered) I need to pull the oil pan and check out the pick up, clean out the sludge and cross my fingers that the crank looks good and there isn't any other obvious damage internally. It all turns normally, the rockers all move as they should and I'm hopeful.
    5) Then its a small job of getting the springs and front axle and shocks back together and the Mistress should be rolling on two tires that hold air and two that don't! [​IMG] [​IMG] And then after the fuel and oil lines, radiator (which hopefully holds water well!) and maybe even brakes (of which there was nothing to salvage but the backing plates... can't even rebuild the wheel cylinders... I hope that I 'll be able to rebuild the master though...) then I should have a rolling chassis that I can possibly drive around thew driveway!
    6) Then its *only* a matter of patching up the body, the wiring, the brakes and lines, lights, new fuel tank, seat padding, new tires, gauge repairs and I'll have a street legal jeep! [​IMG]
     
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