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Is the clutch out

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by jeepcj, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. Feb 15, 2012
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
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    601
    Hi guys, gotta question for you.. The jeep was running great, so I took it for a long highway drive. It did fine until I was almost to my exit to go back home, when I heard a slight grinding and it felt like I put the tranny in nuetral. It would not go back into overdrive, I could shift the shifter but with no gear change. It would drive without the overdrive so I went on down the road. Stoped at a friends for a few and when I was leaving, pulling out the clutch, I heard that grinding sound and I totally lost the clutch. You can shift the trans into any gear without pushing the clutch in and it does nothing. You can see the tires wanting to turn but then the clutch grinds and is gone. So, My first fear was that I lost my overdrive, then that I stripped the gears in the trany, then I thought that just the clutch went out. This is a car muncie 4 speed which I hear are very tough, so I doubt I stripped any teeth just taking off. So, can any of you ease my mind and tell me that the clutch just went out??(anybody?) and my tranny is probably fine. I guess what makes me think stripped gears is the grinding, Ive had a clutch go out before and didnt hear grinding. what do ya think. thanks
    Im going to start pulling the trans today,
     
  2. Feb 15, 2012
    rusty

    rusty Well-Known Member

    norfolk,va
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    Dec 16, 2006
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    1,652
    Well, with a lot of luck, could just be your shifter fell apart. Had that happen to me on a stock chevy shifter years ago. Changed it out for a Hurst. Good luck.
     
  3. Feb 15, 2012
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
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    601
    I checked that already. all the linkage looks fine, I have nothing in any gear 4wd or 2wd, I tried readjusting the clutch cable also. I did take off the trans tunnel and the grinding sound when you pull out the clutch sounds like it is coming from the bellhousing. So, maybe that is good news and just a clutch.
     
  4. Feb 15, 2012
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sep 17, 2009
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    Never have had a clutch just die and make a grinding sound but suppose that could occur if the throwout bearing went to pieces. However, in that case I would expect it to not disengage at all.


    First question is how does your trans shifter feel? If sloppy, the main pin may have broken or come loose and it isn't doing anything. I would get under the Jeep and have someone shift the gears and make sure the trans shift arms are travelling completely into the detent positions.

    If that is ok, second on the list would be pulling the bell inspection cover and checking for debris. If you have the old cast iron bell, you will be able to see pretty much everything. With the aluminum bells, you may be better off just pulling the arm boot and taking a look through that opening. Again, have someone depress the clutch and watch what happens. It should be obvious if something is out of wack.

    If both the clutch and shifter appear to be working but you are still not getting power to the OD and hence transfer case, it is possible that one of the shifting fork lock screws in the trans came loose but that usually results in it being stuck in a gear but maybe its stuck in neutral. Getting the side cover off a Muncie is usually an easy task.

    Good luck!
     
  5. Feb 15, 2012
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    Sep 20, 2002
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  6. Feb 15, 2012
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
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    Aug 23, 2009
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    601
    I will check those things out first before taking things apart. The shifting fork lock screw you mention caught my attention because it would get stuck in gear a lot and I would have to crawl under it to get it out of gear. I will check that things are shifting and take the side cover off before anything else.. thanks guys.
    I just read the above link, is the OD hard to take off? is it just a unbolt and pull off type of thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  7. Feb 15, 2012
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    3,437
  8. Feb 15, 2012
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    OK, after thinking about this a bit, if you can shift through all the gears without anything happening, even no gear grinding, the clutch has to be working and probably the Muncie also. Check the OD linkage first and make sure that is working. The shift fork set screw in the OD loosened up. If so, you will not have to remove the entire OD, just the case assembly. The case assembly comes off removing the 5 mounting bolts but sometimes the end of the pilot on the end of the main spline shaft gets mushroomed a bit (especially if RTV instead of a gasket was used to install the OD case) and it takes some careful prying to get them loose.
     
  9. Feb 15, 2012
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
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    Ok, I am heading out to run an arrand and head over to my friends where the jeep is at. Probably won't be back home until this evening so I will report what I find and go from there.. Thanks for the help guys.
     
  10. Feb 15, 2012
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    I don't have the OD in mine, so don't know. But from reading the first post, it sounds like something in the OD has let loose.
     
  11. Feb 15, 2012
    rusty

    rusty Well-Known Member

    norfolk,va
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    Could the transfer case have gotten out of gear? Just a thought.
     
  12. Feb 15, 2012
    Mike S

    Mike S Sponsor

    Cameron Park Ca.
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    Oct 6, 2009
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    Methinks you just defined the problem right here.

    OD is toast, it sounds like.
     
  13. Feb 16, 2012
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
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    NO,NO,NO.. NO, don't say that mike! those are evil words. lol I hope not. I didn't get to look at it yesterday as I wanted to, a last minute job came up. I am going over to mess with it in about a hour or so. I was really hoping it was just the clutch, but from most of the replys it sounds like my attention needs to be on the OD now. I'll post up my findings later today.. Thanks for the help!!
     
  14. Feb 16, 2012
    achuto

    achuto CJ5/LJ/WK2/KL 2022 Sponsor

    Fallbrook,...
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    Oct 18, 2011
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    Just had something happen to mine that was similar, grinding while shifting OD, then feeling like it not would shift all the way into over. It would then shift without any gear change. I took the OD off and found the shift fork had broken, replaced the old (aluminum) with a brass one. Easy fix if that is the problem.
     
  15. Feb 16, 2012
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    Something to keep in mind with a sbc 350 and an OD: the OD is only rated at 300 ft lbs and it is very easy to have a 350 exceed that. Restraint with the OD engaged is highly advisable. Those pinion gears are very small.
     
  16. Feb 16, 2012
    1960willyscj5

    1960willyscj5 Well-Known Member

    Mesa, Arizona
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    SBC and a Muncie 4 sp with an overdrive?
    The overdrive is overkill! And totally unnecessary!

    A Muncie from a car will perform just fine without the OD.
     
  17. Feb 16, 2012
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
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    Well, I have 4.88 gears and the overdrive on the highway makes things nice. I took out the trans today, but didn't have time to really trouble shoot anything. I could put it into gear manually and spin the output shaft on the engine side of the trand and the output shaft of the T/C and turn them in dif directions, then it would catch and not turn oppisite. I am going to pull off the OD and side cover of the trans tomorrow.
     
  18. Feb 17, 2012
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    I'm going to argue that point. I run 4.10 gears and highway rpm would be something around 3k rpm at 70 mph. With the OD, it is loafing along at 2200 @ 70 mph and is most definately more efficient. IMO, with a Muncie and the 2.54 or 2.56 low gear, 4.10 is about as high geared as one can get if you still use it for a Jeep and even with those, you really need to pay attention to how you design the engine-it needs to have a lot of bottom end torque to work.

    So, whether an OD will help will be highly dependent on both gears and the way the engine is put together. If you have a wild cam (makes a really worthless Jeep off road), the OD may not help because you will need the engine to run high rpms to get any kind of efficiency. One thing for sure is the the OD will allow you to go way faster than what is safe, even with good brakes and steering, with a healthy sbc in front of it.


    My problem with the OD is that 300 ft-lb limitation and it being the weak link in the system-a very high cost weak link. A much better solution would be to run 3.07 gears and have an robust under drive (read low range unit from a BW 1339) in the D18 with an 8.1:1 reduction option. Someday----
     
  19. Feb 17, 2012
    BlueComet

    BlueComet 1962 JEEP CJ-5

    Montrose, Colorado
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
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    204
    I had a similar problem with my overdrive. It was the shift dogs. Herm was very helpful with that, and I ended up with a solid overdrive. Unfortunately, you will have to remove it to diagnose.
     
  20. Feb 18, 2012
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
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    Aug 23, 2009
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    300ft-lb dont seem like much.. I did just install a extreme 4x4 series comp cam (12-235-2) that has a ton of low end. Comp guys said it should have around 350hp. what I don't understand is the PO used to drive the jeep in the SAND DRAG races at local 4x4 events, and it all stayed together. Of course I don't know if he used the OD while he raced.. Future plans do call for waggy 44's with dif gears. From what everyone is saying, sound like the OD with out question so Ill start there today. If it is the OD can I delete it from the system and drive the jeep untill I get the OD fixed, if so is it complecated to do that?? Thanks for the info in the 300ft-lb rating on the OD, I didnt know that. I will def take it easy in the future when it is engaged if I can fix it. Didn't get to look at it again yesterday (work), today should be better..
     
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