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E-brake Cable Modification For Better Braking

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Chris'74, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. Mar 24, 2021
    Chris'74

    Chris'74 Member

    Charlotte, North...
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
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    225
    Hi All,
    I'm working out a plan to make E-brake actually work. Brakes work great. Every component is new. Rear brakes adjusted properly at the star adjuster. Adjusted cable at the equalizer. But when I adjust at the equalizer my pedal goes from full travel to about 1-2". And with all those adjustments, E-brakes will not hold at all. Read a bunch of the posts. I've come up with an option. After watching the motion I think the reason E-brake doesn't hold, is because the spring covering is too long. And when compressed it actually is stopping the e-brake arm from moving through a full range and applying the pad to drum.

    Two pics. First shows without the E-brake pedal pushed. Spring is the full length of cable (inside drum). Second pic is E-brake pedal pushed in about 1-2" of throw (as far as it will go). You can see the spring is complete compressed, but also so long that it is now blocking the arm from moving any more. No more cable can be applied. I was going to cut about 1.5" off the spring w/o cutting the cable (I hope).

    Am I off base on this, on the right track? Maybe another cable? These are for correct year and CJ5, from autozone. Anyone ever tried this modification? Easy way to cut the spring?

    No pedal
    D1192236-7FB0-439E-B92D-7F0C079E6D35_1_105_c.jpeg

    Pedal pressed in
    620929EB-8455-4265-96E0-43AFBC32C9FF_1_105_c.jpeg
     
  2. Mar 24, 2021
    Dale Park

    Dale Park Member

    Utah
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2021
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    112
    Hi Chris, great question and I would like to know also as my e-brake cables are long like yours where the spring is concerned. Overall cable length appears to be fine.

    On a side note, could you snap a picture of how your equalizer cable from foot pedal mounts to the bottom of tub? My new tub has no bracket and I can't see any other way it would mount to insert the long thread e-brake cable into equalizer.
     
  3. Mar 24, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Did you do the "back up and apply the brakes" step? This looks to me like the brakes are so far out of adjustment that the the lever can't move far enough to set the brakes.

    If backing up does not tighten the brakes, they are assembled wrong.
     
  4. Mar 24, 2021
    Chris'74

    Chris'74 Member

    Charlotte, North...
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2019
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    Sure thing... Here is the bracket which is actually welded to the bottom of the tub.
    7DE7F2CF-AC17-401B-9B4B-115FCDD9E45B_1_105_c.jpeg
     
  5. Mar 24, 2021
    Dale Park

    Dale Park Member

    Utah
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    Feb 15, 2021
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    Sure appreciate that. I definitely don't have that on the bottom of my tub. That is the first disappointment I have had with this tub. I guess I could make that bracket and bolt it to the tub which stinks because it is all finished and I just sprayed the liner inside yesterday. I will go look at my old rusted out tub and see if maybe I can cut that one off and fab it to work. Thank you again for the pic.
     
  6. Mar 24, 2021
    Chris'74

    Chris'74 Member

    Charlotte, North...
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    Oct 27, 2019
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    How from those two pics can you determine it is out of adjustment. 3/8" initial thread on the star wheel. Then with drum on added a few clicks more. turns slight resistance. Yes, spent several reverse stops to further adjust. The breaks work great. Just E-brake not good. Anything jump out at you on how assembled wrong... Couldn't it just be exactly that spring being manufactured incorrectly for a '74 the bastard child of all jeeps? Not the first time a part that they say will work for intermediate in the end doesn't work.

    10BB9AC8-742A-4BB6-AF09-E63440DF1CBF_1_105_c.jpeg
     
  7. Mar 24, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Well, not so much from the pictures.

    If the cable spring is completely compressed, that only happens when the lever travel required is too large to firmly seat the shoes against the drums. This happens when the shoes are too far from the drums; IOW not properly adjusted.

    Do you have your original cables? If the spring length is a problem, the length will be different between the new and old parts. In my experience, this is not and has not been a problem with these Jeeps. Parking brake problems have arisen with the pedal assembly, but not the cables. This cable arrangement was used on many Jeeps as well as millions of Ford light trucks, and I would expect it to have come up before, if the spring length has not changed.
     
  8. Mar 24, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    I would also mention, the parking brake adjustment can affect your star wheel adjustment. Since these are new cables, I would loosen the parking brake completely before adjusting the star wheels, either by hand or with the backing-up method. The star wheel adjustment needs to be right before the parking brake cables are adjusted.
     
  9. Mar 24, 2021
    Chris'74

    Chris'74 Member

    Charlotte, North...
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    Oct 27, 2019
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    Adjusted brakes first to TSM specs then E-Brake. Maxed out the E-Brake equalizer adjustment, no improvement and only lessened the pedal movement. Old cable is very similar but prior owner never had E-brakes working either. He complained of same lack of hold. I believe the cable spring is stopping that arm from moving enough to engage the pad. I watched the arm move (without drum on) and it moves 1/2" at best. I can't see anything else stopping the arm's movement. Then the spring on that cable compresses fully and stops any further action of the arm. I plan on pulling both drums off again (soon) then looking for other things that could impact the movement of the arm. I did search cables and there are some based only on the part picture that have the spring only covering half of the cable inside the drum, not the full cable like I currently have. I think the cable design from some manufactures are causing this issue. Posts online have similar experience where pedal only moves 1-2" with very weak holding power, and the poster can't figure out issue.

    Any other opinions out there?
     
  10. Mar 24, 2021
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    I believe the " Backing up Method" tightens the star wheel & the shoes ?
     
  11. Mar 24, 2021
    Chris'74

    Chris'74 Member

    Charlotte, North...
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    Yep correct. Mentioned above did that. But the spring is limiting full movement of the arm.
     
  12. Mar 24, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    I recently added cables to the 11” brakes the PO put on my ‘66.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
    Dale Park and Twin2 like this.
  13. Mar 25, 2021
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    If indeed the brakes are adjusted properly, then it does appear to me that full spring compression is keeping the lever from moving any further.
    I don't see how it could possibly be anything else.
    Of course, you could disconnect the cable from the lever, actuate lever by hand to see how much more movement is needed.
    I say cut away.
     
  14. Mar 25, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    It won't hurt anything as long as the lever pulls back like it has to.
     
  15. Mar 25, 2021
    Dale Park

    Dale Park Member

    Utah
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    Buildflycrash, you did what I am about to do and make a bracket for the equalizer cable pulling against. Where the bracket was on my old tub was on the flat portion exactly like Chris74 picture above. Stinks for me because my tub is painted and liner is sprayed in so I can't weld the bracket on, wish I would have noticed that before spraying the liner in, but now I plan to bolt the bracket to the floor with some button head bolts so I can touch up with liner when done.
     
  16. Mar 26, 2021
    Chris'74

    Chris'74 Member

    Charlotte, North...
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    Could you grind the spray liner off, do a quick weld, and then respray? I color matched my spray liner so couldn't do that myself if I had too. But if you had just black, they make a small spray can application in black. Which you could apply yourself after the welding. But yes bolt through is also a good option. It is a pain that these other bodies either fiberglass or repro don't have that bracket since it is so important to the brake system. Good luck on your fix...

    I'm going to be laid up for awhile. Planned surgery this coming week so will get back to this shortly (few weeks). I'm very much leaning to cutting the spring. But I may order a bunch of cables and see what options for a shorter spring are out there. Cutting probably the best and easiest route. I appreciate all the folks who have given some opinion / advice. Keep it coming. I would love to hear from anyone has ever solved the problem of 1-2" travel at the pedal, weak holding power at the drum, and then improvement by doing "XYZ"....
     
  17. Mar 26, 2021
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

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    Chris......... Somehow , somewhere , I recall running into this same situation. ? I'm thinking like you are; That spring is what's limiting the travel. Cut it, with a dremil tool, & try it .....no big whoop.
    More Importantly, GodSpeed with your Surgery . You'll do great .
    Sincerely
    Richie......Lockman
     
    Chris'74 likes this.
  18. Mar 26, 2021
    Dale Park

    Dale Park Member

    Utah
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    Definitely an option to weld it on, I just hate the thought of welding it on and having the liner separate from tub in a spot that I did not see right away. I think I will go ahead and fab one up and run a couple of button head bolts through tub/frame support. I have some extra liner from a different project that I can use to touch up on the bolts. That should hold it. Going to start and tackle that tomorrow.

    As for your spring issue on the e-brake, I am 98% sure I will have the same problem as when I installed all new hardware, I did notice the spring was bottoming out on the backing plate without much movement on the shoes at all. I figure I will watch your followup posts on what you ended up doing. I need the bracket in place anyway to be sure I have an issue.

    Best of luck on your surgery and get back here soon.
     
    Chris'74 likes this.
  19. Apr 3, 2021
    norms love machine

    norms love machine New Member

    Fernley Nevada
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    following , I am working on my jeep with this same situation , what I will take a look is just take the spring off and put it all back together , adjust it up then pull the brake cable in and out to see how much travel it needs then compress the spring and check is length . Its looking like shorting up the spring is where we are headed . the new spring on the cable must be too long or made from thicker material .
     
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  20. Apr 3, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan

    they just dont make 'em like they used to...
     
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