EarlyCJ5.com Technical Library

A technical library for classic Jeeps

Converting to Saginaw steering

Ready Made Forum Search

Just follow this link for the latest information in our forum on Saginaw Steering.

MRUTA writes:

I have a 63 CJ-5 that I want to convert to Saginaw steering. I just stripped out a 75 CJ-5 and I got all of the steering parts from the steering wheel to the pitman arm. My preliminary look at it makes me think that I am going to have to cut or drill a hole in the front cross member for the steering shaft to go through. Does anyone know if this is the case? Is there anything else I need to look out for? Thanks in advance! Mike

MCRUFF writes:

Mike, I'm doing the same conversion on my '71 and no you don't need to cut a hole in the cross member. My Jeep has the Rancho 2-1/2" lift as of right now I machined the mounting plate for my gear box enclosed the frame and welded the mounting plate to fit it. My pitman are is the one that came with the power box (off a Pontiac Grand Prix) it lines up perfectly with the tie rods. Drawings of this are here:

PDF Files of McRuff's Drawings, updated 29 Sep. 05

SVG Files of McRuff's Drawings, updated 29 Sep. 05

lynn writes

My '71 had the mm notched for clearance (I didn't do the work). It was done with a torch, just a small notch out of the edge of the motor mount. I'm running a '78 CJ-5 tilt column, and standard 76 - 86 shaft. Box is a 4 bolt CJ box, not sure what year.

mruta writes:

Sorry to keep adding more messages to this thread but I have one more question... Can I use the stock steering column for my conversion? I like the look of the "school bus" steering wheel. According to advance adapters, you can use it. I thought that the column (or the shaft) was permanently attached to the steering box under the firewall. This is one time where I hope I didn't look closely enough and someone can tell me I'm wrong. Thanks everyone!

MCRUFF Writes:

Mruta, As far as the stock steering column what you do is cut the shaft and sleeve off above the stock box and place a bronze or brass bushing in the end of the sleeve, leaving about 1 - 1 1/2" of shaft hanging out from the sleeve. This is where you bolt or weld the u-joint on. You have to fabricate a plate and a clamp to hold the steering column to the floor. The plate goes on the inside of the Jeep floor. I bought a postal Jeep column instead, it's the same steering wheel and column it's just that this conversion was already done to the postal columns from the factory.

mruta writes:

McRuff- You are a life saver! I guess I need to go and find a DJ ( I think this is a postal Jeep) steering column. Does anyone know who's a good source. I tried Willys Works and they don't have anything. Maybe Walcks...

MCRUFF writes:

Mruta, I got mine at (AAA Motors INC. 866-355-7278 in Boaz AL. 35957) They specialize in postal Jeeps and have hundreds of Jeeps in stock. It cost me $125 (USD) from steering wheel to rag joint, the u-joint that attaches the column to the steering shaft is a real nice greasable unit. All I needed then was the u-joint that ties into the stub shaft or steering box. I found out about this place because it's only about 10 miles from my house, it's a great source of odd ball parts. BTW, you would need a column from a '72-'75 Postal Jeep.

cvlv writes:

Is the advance adapters kit required to convert to a Saginaw box or can it be done without it? This is for a 69 CJ-5.

lynn writes:

The AA kit appears to be handy, but is expensive and not necessary. You can do this if you can weld and have access to some 3/16 or 1/4" plate, and parts from a CJ donor. Make sure you get a 4 bolt and not a 3 bolt box, if you're using a non-CJ box.

cvlv writes:

I have access to a welder, plate, and the expertise for fabrication. Can you give me some more details on the swap? What parts do I need from the donor? What parts need to be fab'd? Do you know of a web page that might show more detail?

mruta writes:

McRuff is the guy to ask about this. He must be a professional machinist or something of that nature because he sent me some nice CAD drawings of a plate he made for this swap. These guys who have fabbed their own steering swap sure make it look easy!

SOA Steering Questions

Question:

I'm restoring a 71 CJ-5. I want to do a SOA but is it possible with the bell crank type steering?

Answer 1:

I doubt you would ever be happy with that bell crank setup on a spring over. Plan on boxing the front frame rails and hanging a Saginaw steering box. You would be light years ahead of the game.

Answer 2:

I've browsed most of the topics and it sounds like some small lift shackles combined with a 2.5" lift is good for 33's and thats what I'm looking to fit. Also to box the frame all I need to do is cut some 1/4" to 3/8" plate and weld it to the inside of the frame as to create a "box"? I've got a lot of Saginaw swap questions though.

Answer 3:

Yep, Project, you got it. I used 1/4" plate on my '71. I don't recall if the box comes with tubes around the mounting bolts, if it doesn't be sure to sleeve the holes so you don't crush the frame when tightening. You will probably need to notch the cross member just a bit for the steering shaft to clear.

About Saginaw steering boxes

MCRUFF writes:

In the AA catalog they recommend using a 4 bolt 800 series with the casting #76 on it. I was given a 3 bolt 800 series with the #71 cast on it for free, it came off a '79 Buick Riviera. Do any of you think this will work or do you think I should find another box. Do any of you guys have a good picture of the steering box mounted to the frame that shows your setup in detail? I haven't been able to find a Jeep locally this old with a conversion on it to look at. Also is this box really a tight fit between the bumper and the cross member or does it hang lower than the cross member. I'm using the original steering column cut off with a bronze bushing in the tube and a u-joint on the end of it. Also my Jeep has a 2-1/2" Rancho lift on it. Are there going to be any problems with this setup? Guys if this box will work I'll have everything I need except tie rods and steering shaft u-joints and not one dollar invested in this setup since I machined all the parts from scrap steel from work. Mike

dauntless writes:

Are you talking power steering or manual steering? Since you don't mention a pump at all, I'm assuming you're talking about manual steering. FYI, the power steering box input shaft is a different size than the manual steering box, so your mileage may vary in reference to steering u-joints. I doubt you'd have any problems with using the 3-bolt 800 box, as long as it's a manual box. I know of a few jeepers that put 3-bolt 800s on for power steering conversions because those were common on passenger cars so they're easy to find in bone yards. Your steering shaft clearance on the frame is independent of the lift, as long as you're talking suspension lift not body lift. My '68 CJ-5 has no body lift and I had no problems with steering shaft clearance.

The box and pump have been leaking so everything near these is covered in grime. I believe the mounting plate that is on my frame is from AA. It was on the jeep when I bought it, but I re did the entire steering setup since his was so hillbilly-engineered. You can easily make a mounting plate out of 1/4" or 3/8" plate if you have the means. The third link above shows the clearance I have on my steering shaft in relation to the radiator cross member. Yours should be similar but will largely depend on how long your steering column is into the engine compartment. Speedway Motors (race speed shop) sells the steering u-joints I used. The bottom u-joint is 13/16"x36 spline to 3/4" weld on, and the top u-joint is 1"x48 spline to 3/4" weld on. I don't know what the size and spline count is of a Saginaw manual box, but it is definitely much smaller than 13/16"x36. The intermediate shaft is a stock shaft from a 1981 CJ-5 with the ends removed and race-u-joint welded on. Good luck, Jeff

lynn writes:

I used a 4 bolt box on mine. I was told when I did this to avoid the 3 bolt box because with the added front-end stress on a Jeep, 3 bolts simply are not enough support. That's why they are common on cars without a front drive train, but not common on 4WD vehicles. Then if you go to larger-than-stock tires/wheels, the stresses really increase. I've seen 4 bolt boxes pull loose from the mount, so I'd really discourage the use of a 3 bolt. If you decide to go with the 3 anyway, I'd recommend a steering box support. I'd also recommend the steering box support for a 4 bolt with 33" or larger tires. Lynn

Dauntless writes:

A buddy of mine converted his 46 2A to manual Saginaw steering this past year. He used a manual box from a 1984 CJ7 with manual steering. He welded a 3/8" plate to the inside of the frame that the box bolts to. He used tie rod and drag link from narrow track CJ axles. He built the intermediate shaft using 3/4" OD steering rod. The setup works much better than the worm gear box ... less slop and requires less effort when turning. He drives his jeep on the highway to work every day (40k miles annually) and said this mod was the best he's ever done as far as payoff. ----- When the steering was replaced on my '68 (by previous owner) he swapped in Buick 231 exhaust manifolds so that the steering shaft would route better. Turns out it was a decent choice since now I'm running the exhaust inside the frame, out of harms way. I converted mine to GM Saginaw power steering later but nearly all of the steering is fabricated. --- Just a heads up, I believe the manual Saginaw boxes and power Saginaw boxes have different mounting patterns, so if you're planning on converting to manual now, then power later, I believe you'll have to replace the mounting plate at the frame. Keep this in mind since that's where most of the conversion effort will be. The manual box's input shaft is far smaller as well, so you'll have to replace the end of the steering shaft as well. Not sure about the sector shaft that holds the pitman arm on though ...