Source for F134 engine

[scoutsr2]

I am looking at a 68 Tuxedo Park but the engine is gone. The Jeep looks to be in great shape and all original but the F134 engine was scrapped. Is there a source for these. Not sure if it could be a surplus item or not. How about other alternatives like swaps. I prefer to stay original in anything I build but still need to look at the options. Thanks in advance for any help and guidance.

[H8PAVMNT]

Right here in the WTB section.

[timgr]

Here is a good place. Also the G http://www.g503.com/forums/ and Willystech http://www.willystech.com/parts/board.shtml

Check with your local 4WD clubs and online boards too. Should be plenty of 4-bangers in warm, dry Tejas.

[kamel]

Good advice, but just for the record the Tuxedo Park was made up 'till 1967 and production ended with the '67 model year.

The serial number should have 8322 or 8422 as the prefix. If it isn't either of those you may be looking at a 'homemade' Tuxedo Park.

Try to get a complete engine including carb. exhaust manifold and carburetor linkage if possible. All those small parts are easy to get, but it takes a while to get them.

I've bought several jeeps with no engine or disassembled engines, and it is all those small parts that are a pain in the neck to round up.

k man

[w3srl]

Good advice, but just for the record the Tuxedo Park was made up 'till 1967 and production ended with the '67 model year.

The serial number should have 8322 or 8422 as the prefix. If it isn't either of those you may be looking at a 'homemade' Tuxedo Park.

Try to get a complete engine including carb. exhaust manifold and carburetor linkage if possible. All those small parts are easy to get, but it takes a while to get them.

I've bought several jeeps with no engine or disassembled engines, and it is all those small parts that are a pain in the neck to round up.

k man

It could also be a late '67 unit that was sold/titled in '68. ;)

[CT]

Every once in while I have noticed a F134 for auction on ebay.

I bet if you do a couple of posting, one will come running and end up in your garage.

You and I are on the same page with keeping our jeeps origanal.

[scoutsr2]

I found a couple of engines but they will need to be rebuilt. Are parts readily available to do a complete overhaul? How about shop manuals? Thanks

[sparky]

Yes and yes. ;)

Perhaps others care to expound more than I do tonite.

[Glenn]

Yes and yes. ;)

Perhaps others care to expound more than I do tonite. Yep, you shouldn't have any problem finding all needed parts. Key to a good rebuild will be whatever machine work is needed. Do what it takes to find a good machine shop. Finding an older one that's familiar with older engines is even better yet.

[lynn]

Shop manuals

www.thejeep.com
Turner 4WD has reprints of the FSMs for most Jeeps.

Shouldn't be too hard to find an F-134.
Did you check the s/n of this rig to see if it was built as a Tux? (see post above re: 8322 or 8422)

[blevisay]

Krage has a rebuild kit..........

[kamel]

Rebuilding a F-134 can be interesting. The most important thing is the machine shop.

They can do the work that you don't have the equipment to do.

Boring
shaving head and / or block
replacing valve guides
replacing valve inserts
fixing broken exhaust manifold studs.
valve job on head
strip and degrease
cam bearing replacement
turning crankshaft

So, basically your job would be to disassemble and re assemble the engine. That is not a no brainer, but it is logical and the only special tools it requires are an engine stand, compressor, torque wrench, and manual, and oh yeah, a valve spring compressor for the valves in the block.

I just got a block and head back from the shop today, actually, that needed all the above items done. Cost was 411 including strip and blast the valve covers, timing chain cover, clutch cover plate, and front engine plate.

Total cost to do this engine should be 900 including new oil and water pump, pistons, bearings, etc..

I got this engine in pieces; it had been in a barn for around 10 years and looked absolutely horrible. It had to be taken to .030 because of the pitting in the cylinder walls. They clean up well.

I have done one for less, but it didn't need nearly as much work.

So, if an engine rebuild is 2,000 if you have it done for you, you are saving around 1,000 by doing it yourself and learning something at the same time.

As to the parts vendor to choose. Make a spreadsheet and get quotes from a couple of the vendors, just be sure to get a quote from Turner 4WD too. I have never found any part on a jeep for less than Turner.

All you'd really have to comparison shop is
pistons, bearings, rings, gasket kit, oil and water pump which should be an easy thing to do.

[timgr]

As an experienced (and opinionated :) ) amateur in engine building, my impression is that most garage rebuilders go overboard with the machining. I tend to agree with Dick Datson that machine shops will routinely recommend an overbore, whether it's really needed or not. Especially with these old engines, good blocks are a finite resource that will be used up someday.

AMC 401 blocks, for example, are already in short supply because they don't tolerate much overboring. Enthusiastic owners, wanting to get like-new (or hot rod) performance from their 401s, overbore their worn but servicable blocks.

Datson advocates overhauling engines at least once between each rebuild. This overhaul includes new rod bearings, cylinder honing, and new rings, as well as other service parts as needed. An overhaul is way cheaper than a rebuild, since it requires no new pistons and much less machine work.

You're still going to need to grind the valves and hot tank or power wash the block (unless you overhaul the engine in the car - also possible), but don't deck the block or head unless it needs it, regardless of what the machine shop recommends. You can measure the block and head flatness with a feeler gauge and a long steel ruler - simple! Measure everything yourself! Measure and remeasure!

Also, consider the use the engine will be put to. Let's say your engine is tired after it's first rebuild, and the rebuild lasted (pessimistically) 60K miles, much of it off pavement and low speed. A rebuild without rebore will have tapered cylinders, and the rings may last, say, 30K miles. If you drive your Jeep 2K miles a year, that's another 15 years of life. Same thing with the valves. Consider also the valve guides - if you knurl the guides instead of replacing, they may last 30K miles - again, putting the next rebuild 15 years ahead. Not many people keep their cars for 15 years!

Of course, all of this relies on 1) your engine being worn but not broken when you rebuild it, and 2) that your Jeep will not be a daily driver that sees 50K or 100K in a year. Not many of us expect our Jeep to double as a family car (Mike excepted).

Just some things to think about -

best regards Tim

[jpflat2a]

my o.2 worth
I have seen F4s bored to .060; personally I wouldn't run one past .040 on the pistons or .040 on the crank and rods

[Glenn]

The F-head in my 3B is .060 over, I was worried at first but so far ok. Doesn't run hot which was my main concern. Unless the block itself is damaged, boring is kind of a moot point anyway since they can be sleeved. Granted it's an expensive proposition, but it saves a block.

[timgr]

Yeah, sleeving is an option. I think most builders would look for another block before sleeving (except in the case of very rare engines), since sleeving can be expensive. The objective for Datson was to maximize the total life of the engine before such heroic measures were needed. It's his style to complain about the disposable nature of modern engines, and includes this trend toward an automatic rebore as part of this modern outlook.

In my opinion, it's good to think about the intended use of a classic or recreational car, and only repair it to meet those expectations. Plus, IMO machine shops will recommend marginally necessary procedures that are both CYA and good for their profits. For example, I worked at a parts store where we sent out a lot of customer's cylinder heads. Every single head that went out for work, the machine shop recommended resurfacing. In fact, I have sent in perfectly flat heads (to a different shop), and they recommended resurfacing. I'm not saying that it's a scam, but that the shop will have a standard way of doing things that may not be the best for your application.

[scoutsr2]

Well I got a bit of a closer look at the Jeep yesterday and it is defintely a Tuxedo Park Mark IV. The vin starts with a 8322 and the emblems are right on the sides of the hood. It has chrome bumpers, hood hinges and widshield frame hinges as well as gas tank brakets on the rear, a mico line lock, looks to have a plug in the front to plug the towing vehivle in to so light work while being towed. It sure sits higher than most jeeps I remember from that era but it is sure enough un-modified. Supposedly the top and harware are folded up and stored and most of the engine hardware is there with exception of the block which was scrapped by the machine shop after finding it was cracked. Thanks for the help guys.

[dgreenwell]

I have a block you can have if you want to come to Dallas and get it. The engine was seized when I got my jeep, but I have since swapped in another into the jeep. I dissassembled the frozen motor and free'd and removed the pistons. My theory is the previous owner blew a head gasket and then let it sit. Everything else in the motor looked good. Cylinders are not pitted and would probably clean up with a hone.

Anybody interested can email me at

dgreenwell@aol.com

[Uncle Jeep]

I too have a block if you want it. Its yours for the taking. I am unsure what condition it is in but if you want it, it's yours. I'm in La Luz, NM if that is any closer.