cj3 axle question

[macedonia64]

i have a dana 44 under my 64 cj 3 and my problem is that i keep eating bearings. the end play in the axle shaft is way to much i know that. does any one know of the right solution to the [roblem as i am imagining this is kinda common. thanks

[william_cj3b]

the end play in the axle shaft is way to much i know that.

I think you have answered your question. Problem is I can't remember if you add shims or take some out to tighten the end play on the tapered 44. It's been to long since I had mine apart.

Good luck & before you hear it from everyone else - Location? PICS??? :D

[jeepngem]

You remove shims to tighten.....How much play?.....where is the retainer located? (which side of the backing plate?) Can the bearing pass through the backing plate? You may just have the retainer in the wrong place. Good Luck!! Glenn

[Glenn]

How about the possibility the race and bearing are reversed?

[macedonia64]

ok so i forgot some vital information. the problem is that i have no shimms on it, i can actually tap the race in past the axle flange. so when i tap it in aND MAKE the axle tight its fine. but as soon is i run it the race works its way back out and back to square one. hope this helps thanks again

i am in Steubenville ohio and i dont know how to post pics????

[Glenn]

Ok then it sounds like the spacer is missing in the rear diff.

[macedonia64]

where does the spacer go????? i dont see a spacer in the diagrams

[nickmil]

There is a spacer called a thrust block in the rear diff on tapered axles that goes between the side gears that the ends of the axle shafts butt up against. The thrust block has an oblong hole in it that the cross shaft passes through that the spider gears (also called pinion gears) rotate on. If that is missing you will never get end play correct. I've seen these break apart and drop in the bottom of the diff so you want to get the cover off and take a look. That's all for an open diff. If you have a Powerlock limited slip then there are buttons that go on the cross shafts that are held together with a roll pin that does the same thing. Bottom line, pull the diff cover and see if these are missing. If a Powerlock, you will either need to pull it apart to look, or if real lucky you can look down the tube with a flashlight and see if they are there. I've never had that luck though. Nickmil.

[schardein]

I had this issue after installing a lockright noslip in my open diff (67 cj, 2-pc d44). This was bad juju, cause I didn't see a solution at first.

I thought of using the thrust block out of the open diff, but as you may know the noslip installs in pieces, with no way to put in the thrust block......unless you assemble it, leave out the crosspin, and slip it thru one of the axle shaft holes...turns out it a perfect fit to press it thru with hard finger pressure, any tighter and I would have had to tap it with a hammer and worry about tearing up the splines. THen install the crosspin and success! Funny the instructions didn't mention anything about this even though it was made for a 19 spline (2 piece axle) dana 44!! Kinda scary.
Macedonia, I see it is locked front and rear-what kind of lockers? This is the source of the problem I bet. No thrust block.

[Glenn]

Schardein, I guess what you're saying is you didn't realize during installation the thrust block has to be in there. This sounds like it could be the case with this one. Course we don't know what kind of locker, I assumed it's probably a lockrite, given the limited options. The one from my 3B was broken like Nickmil mentioned, I was able to weld it back together though so reused it. You can buy them new, so it shouldn't be a problem getting one.

[william_cj3b]

Good info, I had forgotten about the spacer :oops:

[schardein]

The point of my story is that the instructions made no mention whatsoever of the need for the stock thrust block to be reinstalled, and I think it was sheer luck it was able to slip past the splines for the axle shaft.

You would think the engineers or instructiuon writers or whoever would have caught the need for the thrust block.

And I bet there are quite a few jeeps out there that don't know why they can't get a good adjustment on the axle endplay!

[JAB]

Back when I was REALLY YOUNG (19 or 20) & STUPID I installed a Gleason Dual Drive Differential (now known as a Torsen) in my '62 CJ-5. I was all excited that I installed it myself & verified correct backlash etc. In my haste to finish it in time for deer season I failed to check axle end-play. I just re-assembled the shims, etc. the way they came off & never gave it a 2nd thought. What could be easier?! I actually drove it for several hundred miles like that. A couple of weeks later, around noon on Thanksgiving Day, I'm about 1/2 mile from the gravel road backing the jeep off the trail to park it before I hike in the rest of the way to my deer stand. As I changed directions the jeep sort of stopped & tilted to the left. I opened my door & looked down on the red-hot axle stub glowing in the center of the hub as my tire & wheel lay on its side with the falling snow sizzling as it landed on the junk parts. :evil: The axle had twisted off just outboard of the bearing. I thanked God that it didn't happen on the highway & because of that event I learned how to do things safely & properly (went to tech school). I also understood what a co-worker had said about the jeep "shifting" to one side when I went around a turn.

I"ll leave out the part about burning up my battery winching out to the gravel road because the tow truck would'nt/couldn't come in the woods, & the downtime figuring out all the details, but........

I called DDD to complain & they matter of factly informed me that the instructions explicitly stated to set the axle endplay after installation. To do that I'd need the center spacer, but that wasn't mentioned. My point was that the directions should have pointed out that to do that I'd need to disassemble the old carrier (it was a power-loc or trac-lok) to get it, or buy one separately & they should have specified that or supplied that part. In the end I made a hardened part in class & they gave me some sort of small refund but I can't remember how much.

I learned some very valuable lessons from that episode that are still relevant today.

[DoubleBit]

Just thought I'd add to the tech forum traffic, reply to this thread and add a question. I am running an old d44 tapered axle under my MB and it has developed a bunch of end play in it's axles too. This center button/spacer block sounds like a real likely culrit.
First I wonder where I'll get a new one if it is what I need.
Second, I have a d41 in my axle pile, would that one be a likely donor?
Heck, maybe I orta just clean up the 41 and run it under the MB?
Thanks y'all.

[nickmil]

If you have a 10 spline 44 under your MB then the thrust block from the 41 "should" fit. As I recall, the 10 spline and 19 spline thrust blocks were different and wouldn't interchange. IIRC the diameter is different and won't allow it to fit properly if swapped. If you can't find one local or on this board, call R&P at 503-557-8911. They probably have a good used one in stock. You will need to specify whether you have a 10 spline or 19 spline carrier. Nickmil.

[DoubleBit]

Thanks Nick.
That gives me something to go on.
Now to untangle the d41 from the pile. : )

[Kodiak12060]

What's &amp?

[william_cj3b]

What's &amp?

It's character coding for ampersand (&). Probably slipped through the cracks when the board was changed over to v-Bulletin.

[Hawkes]

Originally Posted by Kodiak12060
What's &amp?


I was going to ask the same thing, I've seen it before. I thought it was local dialect or something. I had a teacher once that ended every sentence with "and everything else", got used to it eventually.

Paul

[nickmil]

Thanks Nick.
That gives me something to go on.
Now to untangle the d41 from the pile. : )

I was digging through my box of misc. diff parts last night and found a thrust block for a 19 spline axle. If you end up needing one PM me. Nickmil.

[DoubleBit]

Thanks Nick, I have pulled the diff covers off both my d44 and 41.
The spacer looks good, at least it isn't discolored and there is not a ton of chunky iron in the housing.
There is a good amount of fine metal floating around in the 90wt that came out. Maybe it's the wheel bearings, since they got their grease thinned by the leaking gearlube. I'll take a close look there before disturbing the gear set.
BTW, the 5:38 ring gear for the 44 is much thicker that the 41's.
And another question: How much inboard/outboard play should there be at the axle/hub when shimmed correctly? I'm guessing a very minimal amount.

[jpflat2a]

tapered axle bearing end play should be .001" to .006"
I have seen all shims and bearing adjustment done from one side only (left or right)
have also seen split between both sides
fwiw

[schardein]

I have seen a broken crosspin assembly in a D44 Powerloc caused *we believe* from shimming all from one side. Axle shaft butted against the crosspin (not really a pin but a piece of metal) and broke it in half. When the Jeep was driven the diff would not differentiate at all, would skid the outside tires around a corner like a spool. Pulled it apart and found the cracked piece. It was good before installation. I'd be careful about setting endplay all on one side.

[DoubleBit]

Thanks guys, the shimming and what side issue I s'pose would all depend on how many shims you needed etc.
Mine came to me with shims on both sides, so I reckon it'd be prudent to stick with that.
Thanks for the spec JP.

[DoubleBit]

Got into the axle deeper this weekend, found the wheel bearing on the drivers side all full of flakes of steel worn from the rollers/races. Bummer but definitely fixable.

The worst thing I found was that the hubs are cracked, right at the key way there's a crack at along one edge of the groove on each of them.

I have others from the d41 only they are not drilled for the brake drum retaining screws like the ones I was running.

How important do you guys figure the retaining screws are?
Can I just use the d41 hubs and relie on the lug studs and nuts to keep the drums in place?

The centering holes in the drums to the raised centers of the hubs match up fine.

Thanks in advance!