Will a 500CID Cadillac engine bolt up?

[HeepaJeep]

Hello everyone!
Newby here to your fine forum.
And so I have a question I am looking have answered.
I have a 1970 Commando with the stock V6 and turbo 400.

If I wanted to, I am thinking that a 500 c.i.d. V8 from the early 1970's will bolt right up to the existing turbo-400.

Can anyone confirm?

Thanks alot.

[sammy]

:shock:that's a lot of power!!

[1970CJ6]

Yes it would bolt up to the transmission, but I don't know if you could get it to fit in the engine bay. My Buick 350 was a sqieze to get in.

Andrew

[Rondog]

Why on Earth would you want to put a 500 inch motor into a Jeep? You have a death wish or something?

[Dummy]

Yeah, it'll bolt up. Yeah, you can squeeze it in. Yeah, you should do it.

Sanderson makes some center dump headers if you can't scrounge the correct 500/472 manifolds for your chassis. You'll probably need a mix of Eldorado and sedan/coupe to get the right manifolds.

Swap to an HEI if you haven't already and keep the stock Q-Jet. Post pics.

[jd7]

Yeah, it'll bolt up. Yeah, you can squeeze it in. Yeah, you should do it.

Sanderson makes some center dump headers if you can't scrounge the correct 500/472 manifolds for your chassis. You'll probably need a mix of Eldorado and sedan/coupe to get the right manifolds.

Swap to an HEI if you haven't already and keep the stock Q-Jet. Post pics.

...what he said:iagree:

[Mcruff]

If I wanted to, I am thinking that a 500 c.i.d. V8 from the early 1970's will bolt right up to the existing turbo-400.



Opec will undoubtedly be your best friend then.R)

[Dummy]

The one thing I'd recommend for that engine is higher gearing. You don't want 4.27s, 4.88s, or especially 5.38s. That engine wants to tug and lug against the gear. For example, I'd run 3.55s-4.10s with 33s. If you're building a rockcrawler, then gear away - but for a regular multi-use driver go tall.

[timgr]

Popular swap in a Wagoneer. The Caddy 472/500 is an excellent design, light (for its displacement) ,cheap, very powerful, and compact. In a wagon, interfeerence with the heater box and power brake booster is most problematic, otherwise an easy swap, especially in place of the Buick 350.

You'll need new mounts, move the radiator forward, but you can do it. It's a lot of engine for that chassis though.

<edit> BTW the usual swap for the V6/TH400 Jeepster is a 300, 340 or 350 small-block Buick from the same era. These use the same mounts as the V6, so would be easier than the Caddy. Some of these engines came with 4Vs and high compression, and were very powerful. Even the 2V 350 has enough power to move a Wagoneer around smartly, and feels even more powerful because of the torquey character of these engines.

[HeepaJeep]

Thanks guys for confirming my assumptions.
At this point it is only a dream.
I have the Commando and it runs fine as soon as I figure out why I am getting no spark.

Why would I want to do it?
Only because it would be different and unique and cause I can.
I hear the 500 Caddy is about 100lbs lighter than a big block Chevy (with less cubes). I also understand with all that torque, a gentle right foot is required.

And I asked now cause there is a donor Caddy down the street for sale that just got slapped with a green sticker. Which around here means remove it or lose it.

I also want to remove the wings from the grill so I can install a CJ hood then repaint it in the Day-glo green or orange and put early Renegade stripes on it. Along with a surry style open sides top with the fringe.

[speedbuggy]

:drool: A 500 caddy... I like it!

[timgr]

Great swap for a Chevy/GMC pickup, if you need a tow rig... :driving:

Buy the car, yank the engine and put it in the corner of your garage. Scrap the rest. That's what I'd do.

[michigan_pinstripes]

uh huh -- grab it and yank the powertrain -- ebay what ever else you can and ship the rest to the yard 8)

[Rondog]

With that kinda power you're gonna need wheelie bars! http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/smilies/burnout.gif

[Fnord5]

With that kinda power you're gonna need wheelie bars! http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/smilies/burnout.gif

And an axle like this: http://www.monstertruck.terramail.pl/MONSTER%20TECH3_pliki/2ton-a.jpg

[w3srl]

..and a BIG shoehorn!

[DALE THOMAS]

You Should Check Out - Novak Conversions- I'm Not Sure Of Their Email Address But They Discuss Several Motor Options For Jeeps And They Sell The Necessary Adapters.

[mb82]

One thing I keep thinking of is cooling. How are you planning on cooling that big motor? I don't think the stock CJ rad will even come close.

[michaeel]

well a lot of the guy's agree that it is a tight fit. and a few years ago I installed a 1960's caddie "429 cuin + automatic { no 4x4} straight axle-- just to blast through the mud+and side swipe trees{that happened after having a few} and the wild thing is I have right here a 1966 cadillac with a 429cuin with 83,000 miles that I'm parting out.. have not found the jeep body {or the time } to do it again...so if you want a caddie engine.. let me know? oh! the old jeep-it rolled over many many times{ not wearing a seat belt- we parted on the first roll + I did good... bye !! good luck--and yea!! a "REAL BLAST" IS too soft of a word>>>

[nickmil]

Jim Dale, an old timer and friend has a 506 Cad in his CJ-6 with an SM-465 and 205 (500 Cad bored out). He swapped to narrowed 14 bolt/Dana 44 8 lug axles at the same time. He kept the short nose, looks pretty stock from the outside, but had to cut the firewall and do some creative engineering with throttle linkage, brake power booster mounting, etc to get it to fit. You will need to beef up the chassis and especially front suspension. The rear of his is fine but the front has sagged pretty bad. It's a cool ride that gets some real attention when he drives it around here. Believe it or not, he gets pretty good mileage with it..... Nickmil

[HeepaJeep]

Hey guys,
Ran across this list on the web of engine weights and physical sizes. Very interesting info for motorheads. Sorry if already posted.
http://www.35pickup.com/mulligan/weight.txt

I note that the 500 Caddy weighs in at 595lbs
the big block 454 Chevy weighs in at 675lbs
and the Buick V6 odd-fire 225 weighs in at 414lbs

[Monster Rat]

Hey I just wanted to say Hi! I am building a Jeep/Chevy thingy and had a question for the th400 guys.

I have a 225/th400/20 combo out of a 71 Jeepster that is going in my project rig. The 225 is taking a dirt nap, and being replaced with a 10:1 1970 Caddy 472. After searching the site and the net I still have a few questions.

The th400 I have is the one with the BOP adapter, this should bolt to the Caddy no problem, but when it comes to the converter and flexplate is where I'm fuzzy. Will the stock Jeepster converter bolt to the Caddy flexplate? I do not yet have the 225/400 seperated.

I've been hearing the word NAILHEAD mentioned, does the NH th400 (which is what the 70 th400 would be right?) have a shorter case which is why the adapter does not affect the distance between converter to flexplate?

I just want to be DOBA (dead on balls accurate) that combo won't thrust the engine or tranny.

I KNOW someone on this site has done the swap, hook me up!

Here's the project:

1987 YJ frame
1939 Chevy cab
???? Jeep grille
Sterling 10.25 rear axle on 40's
D44 frt axle on 33's (offset gearing)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/jt2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/DSCI1375-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/DSCI1381-1.jpg

[Boyink]

OK - I gotta ask..where do you find whitewall offroad tires? Make them somehow?

[Monster Rat]

Yeah, I just painted them. Probably won't last too long when aired down.

[Pack Rat]

I see no reason why you'd have a problem, converters were the one thing that remained the same, relatively speaking. I'm running a 350 Buick in my snowplow Jeepster. Liking the looks of your ?Jeep? :). And yes, the Nailhead has a shorter case. The tranny would have bolted directly to the engine without the adapter/spacer.

[timgr]

Just a few details... The earlier Buicks engines, known as nailheads because of the valve locations, have a shoulder on the block that sticks out to meet the transmission. That's why the nailhead case is shorter, and the adapter fits in between the shorter case and the BOP engines.

I understand there's a cast iron adapter on the end of the Buick crankshaft that supports the front of the torque converter. I think it will fit a Cadillac with no mods, but not 100% sure. That's the only possible hangup that I can think of.

I suggest you ask your question on www.ifsja.org/forums - there are some guys over there that have done this swap, and they would know more about the details.

[Pack Rat]

You're thinking of the AMC 304/360, none on Buick.

[wellsnmj]

The auto parts store I used to use alot had a guy that worked there with a chevy luv that he had put a 500 in.. where there's a will there's a way ( even if it does mean removing the firewall and having the tranny take up half the cab...)

[cj5/442]

hell, that needs an early hemi

[timgr]

You're thinking of the AMC 304/360, none on Buick.

Well ok then. :tea:

[Psychojeeper]

About 10-12 years ago I knew a guy in El Paso who had a CJ-5 with a 500 Caddy in it,,,,,,it absolutely TORE UP the sand dunes,, had power to spare and ran like a scalded ape. Kind of spooky on the pavement thought, especially given the CJ-5's short wheelbase and over 5 inches of SOA lift.

I'd say go for it just to get as far away from the "Red TJ Syndrome" as possible.

[pathkiller]

There's a bunch of Youtube videos of this guy's CJ7 with a 572. Slight overkill. I especially like the one of him blowing the doors off a Ferrari in a street race. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TxtfXhfT2g&feature=related

[DrDanteIII]

It would be un-American NOT to put a 500ci engine in a jeep.

[Monster Rat]

Well it has been a while since I posted on here, just got around to trying to fit the engine to the th400......it will not work. The caddy flex plate is a larger in diameter, and will not fit within the cast iron adapter. I thought about seeing if there is a smaller diameter flex plate availible, but then I may run into starter issues....round and round we go!

So I guess my next option is to put the tail shaft on the stock Caddy transmission.

[ib4classics]

Isn't the stock Cad tranny a Turbo 400 also?

[Monster Rat]

It's my understanding the stock tranny in the Caddy was a TH425. Slightly higher torque rating was all that I thought was different.

[avmechanic]

I just helped a buddy of mine install a 472 into his cj7 a couple of years ago. The 472/500 is an awesome engine. I am not sure what is the best option on the transmission but if you can find the smaller ring gear flexplate you should be able to find a starter. GM was pretty good about starter interchangeability between those classic V8s. The big difference is if they are on the left or right side. Like I believe chevy and Buick are on the right side and I believe Olds and pontiac are on the left. I can't remember which side the Caddy is. The starters are very similar. The starters for the small ring gear have both bolts inline and the large ring gear have the two bolts staggered with one long and one short. The nose pieces are interchangeable. So a different starter could be an option. Now on the tranny side. I am pretty sure the caddy TH400 or 425 is probably a long shaft. You will need a short shaft tranny or you will have to get the tranny converted to a short shaft. For my friends Jeep I gave him a spare TH400 I had out of a 70 GS455 Buick. We just pulled the tailshaft off and installed the Dana 20 and adapter that was on the back of the AMC era Wagoneer TH400 he had. It bolted up no sweat. That may be an option for you especially if you happen to have a short shaft tranny in the Caddy.
I will tell you that my buddy used Sanderson Headers and they are quite nice. He was running an Edelbrock performer intake along with a Comp 260H cam. I wish I could tell you how well it all runs but he is still building this Jeep and progress has been very slow. He had a bigtime setback when we had a early cold snap last winter, it got well below freezing in his shop only to freeze and crack his Caddy block badly, as he had been running it in the chassis without antifreeze. He has been so devastated that he has had a hard time motivating himself to get back putting the project back on track. I need to help him track down another block or engine to get it going again. The other thing I remember for troubles as far as the install goes is his engine was a front sump engine and he really needs a rear sump pan which I believe only came on the 500 in the front drive car.
I hope some of that info helps you out. Good luck getting it together. It should be fun.
Greg

[avmechanic]

Hey I just wanted to say Hi! I am building a Jeep/Chevy thingy and had a question for the th400 guys.

I have a 225/th400/20 combo out of a 71 Jeepster that is going in my project rig. The 225 is taking a dirt nap, and being replaced with a 10:1 1970 Caddy 472. After searching the site and the net I still have a few questions.

The th400 I have is the one with the BOP adapter, this should bolt to the Caddy no problem, but when it comes to the converter and flexplate is where I'm fuzzy. Will the stock Jeepster converter bolt to the Caddy flexplate? I do not yet have the 225/400 seperated.

I've been hearing the word NAILHEAD mentioned, does the NH th400 (which is what the 70 th400 would be right?) have a shorter case which is why the adapter does not affect the distance between converter to flexplate?

I just want to be DOBA (dead on balls accurate) that combo won't thrust the engine or tranny.

I KNOW someone on this site has done the swap, hook me up!

Here's the project:

1987 YJ frame
1939 Chevy cab
???? Jeep grille
Sterling 10.25 rear axle on 40's
D44 frt axle on 33's (offset gearing)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/jt2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/DSCI1375-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/DSCI1381-1.jpg

I forgot to address one other thing in your earlier post. That is a way cool rig you have there by the way. I love it. Anyway first off, a true Nailhead buick TH400 will not work at all. A Nailhead version of the TH400 came in 63/64/65 behind Buick Nailhead 401s and 425s. It has a round bellhousing bolt pattern and is really a early predecessor to the later common TH400 built for the next 30 + years. Some people call the 300 and 340 as well as the 225s in the Nailhead family as they had similar Valve covers but they have nearly nothing in common. So there is some misconceptions there.
Greg

[Monster Rat]

Greg thanks for your reply. The starter is on the right side on the caddy block. Maybe I can find a smaller flexplate, as that would be the best deal, since this Jeepster nailhead transmission is only 4 yrs old and has next to no miles on it. Would the tailshaft from the jeepster 400 fit in the caddy longshaft tranny? The caddy tranny looks like it is a long shaft style because it is...well... long. The tail housing looks like it is 10+ in long. It's not near me at the moment to measure for sure. I have not messed with many autos, have rebuilt several t-5's, 3spds, and t-cases but am a bit lost on the auto stuff.

The pan is not an issue in my situation. I have an Eldo pan, that I'm saving, and used my Sedan Deville pan instead. Seemed a waste to use the good pan if not needed.

That totally sucks about your buddies 500. I feel for him.

Here's a pic or 2 of the project.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/DSCI1377-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/Mick123/DSCI1381-1.jpg

[avmechanic]

Would the tailshaft from the jeepster 400 fit in the caddy longshaft tranny? The caddy tranny looks like it is a long shaft style because it is...well... long. The tail housing looks like it is 10+ in long.

You definitely have a long shaft tranny. Short shafts are more common and have a stubby short end about 5" or 6" long. You could pull apart the Jeepster tranny and rob the shorter shaft out of it and install it into the caddy tranny. You could also install many of the other guts of it while you are at it as well. You might as well stick in the clutchpacks and bands out of there while you are at it. Just pick the best parts from each of them and put it back together. If you happen to have a TH425 behind the caddy (which I doubt) you should use the heavier planetary and drum out of it. You could also just get a budget rebuild done on the Caddy tranny and get them to swap to a short output shaft. You will not need the tailstock housing with the transfer case. You could also just find a complete short shaft BOP TH400 and bolt your transfer case up to it. I have seen complete trannys go for $50 to $100 around here. Add a B&M shift kit and your are rockin'. I am pretty sure your Dana 20 will have an adapter and an input that will slide right on the back of a regular short shaft TH400 from a car. It should have a fairly fine spline shaft input (28/30/32 ???) on the Dana 20 like my buddy had. It worked out great for him. I hope that helps you out.
Greg

[Monster Rat]

Greg you have been most helpful. I called a local tranny shop to see what they would charge to swap guts, I was quoted $950........talk about motivation to learn something new! I'm going to get a simple seal kit and swap it all myself. Since the Jeepster tranny is fresh with only 10,000 miles on it, I won't be disassembling the drums/hubs. I still think I will get a repair manual just to be safe.

[Monster Rat]

Oh yeah one more question. I can use the valve body from the Jeepster tranny right? It was assembled with a shift improver when that tranny was built in '06.

Thanks

[Pack Rat]

Even if you had a short shaft 400 you'd need the output shaft from the Jeepter any way as it has a groove cut in it for an "O" ring that car trannys don't have. The 400's are pretty simple to rebuild, even simpler if you're just changing the internals from one to the other. Should have no problem using the valve body either. I can tell you without a doubt you don't have a TH425.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h286/packrat_2006/Various%20Parts%20Pictures/Turbo425.jpg
^^^^^TH425^^^^^

[avmechanic]

Sorry, my mistake about the TH425. You definitely will not have one of those. I was thinking that one of the previous posters was talking about the TH475 and mixed it up with 425 front driver. The TH475 is a heavy duty TH400 with straight cut planetary gears and heavy duty clutches along with heavy duty case and a few other goodies. It was used in some Caddys as well as motorhomes and other heavy duty applications. I doubted you would have had one of them as they are rare. Regular TH400s are plenty tough anyways. If you are mechanically inclined and have a good book you should be able to handle the swap of parts. You may be able to find a PDF of a manual online or some other directions. I have a couple good books but nothing digital. The Valvebody should swap fine. $950 is pretty pricey I would say. Do it yourself. It is not as tough as people make it out to be. Just be carefull and keep things clean as well as have a clean place to do it. Good luck with it.
Greg

[Monster Rat]

Thought I would give an update of my build. I was able to use the Jeepster tranny after clearancing the adapter. I finally got it on the road, and here is a short vid. Turn it up around 50 sec. The Caddy sounds great!

Thanks for all the help guys!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlbX1HnZx8c

[Pack Rat]

Was wondering how you were coming along with that, thanks for the update. Sounding mighty fine ;).

[Psychojeeper]

Woo-Hooooo,,,damn good looking rod,,,looks like a lot of fun to play with.

[bkd]

that's awesome....still grinning ear to ear :D
Jim

[lhyatt]

Is your truck for hire ? I'm thinking that's what I want to haul me to where I well be laid to rest,(when someday I go).
Larry