push rod?

[neptco19]

today i was messing with the jeep and have started to hear a slight ticking lately, so i thought i would pull the valve cover off and check it out. All i found out was that one of the push rods was missing, just gone, i have changed the oil since i have had it and didnt find any metal pieces. i tried sticking a long magnet down the hole and didnt find anything. i have only owned the jeep about a month and a half or so. does any body have any clues to what happened and what all might be damaged from not having one in there.

[James P. Enderwies]

neptco19: Since you just bought this Jeep, and it's an Odd Fire, you probablly didn't notice that 1 cylinder is "dead". The pushrod probablly broke and is in the lifter gallery. Pull the intake manifold and check things out. You'll probablly find the 2 pieces of the rod in there. BTW, broken pushrods ARE NOT common. They bend, but usually don't break. I don't think "Scotty" "beamed it out". :rotflmao:

If this is the case, you've lucked out. :) Just put a new one in and go for it.

[michigan_pinstripes]

Now that is an interesting one! I once found a pushrod rolling around in the galley on my Olds 350 after pulling the manifold. Anyways, the P.O. had simply replaced it and never retrieved the bent one. The engine was sludged to the hilt but ran fairly well!

You will likely find a bent one when you go in after it. The real question is what made it fall out? dead lifter? stuck valve? cam lobe gone? So many questions, so little time.

Its a tough call you will have to make and I suggest you get input from others. IMHO, I would either tear it all down for a proper rebuild or invest very little right now and install a junkyard replacement to see what happens (sounds scary, I know). You may want to pull another pushrod to verify height. Reground/reman cams have longer pushrods to compensate for a shorter lobe, IE: Jasper (very doubtful you have a reman but you never know). You should probably verify if that lifter is even working by observing the lift of the replacement pushrod while manually turning the engine. Is the valve spring compressed more than the others (stuck partially open without piston hit)? If everything appears to move the way it is suppose to, follow the service manual for proper adjustment procedures.

Good luck, I hope it turns out to be a simple fix!

[scott milliner]

I don't think "Scotty" "beamed it out". :rotflmao: :shock: Everyone named Scott hats that. ;)

[Rob C]

Jason,
Pulling the intake isn't all that bad, and that is really the only way you will be able to see if the old rod is still in the engine. It is really easy to drop one down the bore if you aren't careful. I just replaced the lifters in mine because they were ticking and it took only a Sat afternoon...and that was with painting the intake and valve covers. You can also see if there is visible damage to the cam as well. :shock: :?

I got my lifters from a local speed shop, but NAPA carries them and the rods as well. Let us know how it goes.

[neptco19]

yeah this weekend i am planning on tearing into it. hopefully there will not be too much damage, hopefully just a broke push rod. just courious though, how much roughly am i looking at if it needs to be rebuilt.

[michigan_pinstripes]

To do it right you can spend $500-$800 for head work, updated cam, lifters, timing gear.

As a short term solution, you may be able to install a pushrod and leave it at that. It may run 1 year or 10 years, who knows. Pull the intake and let us know what happened to that rod (bent or broken). You can then decide if you want to dive into pulling the heads. It all depends on your budget and what you want out of the little bugger!

We will all help you spend your money wisely! ;)

[vanguard]

Autozone, carries rebuilt heads from Moores in Colorado $140 each. No core. Probably cheaper than you can have them rebuilt for. After that the master kit for the block is about $350 and then there's machining.

Costs and part sources on the front page.

[Southtowns27]

I took my V6 to my race engine builder after it broke...he told me $1400 minimum for a rebuild. But, that was with new everything and the best of everything. He also said it needed a LOT of machine work, it was beat up pretty bad. He built a Chevy 283 for me for $1000 which is rediculously cheap. I've found that a good rule of thumb is that rebuilds cost $200 - $300 a cylinder.

[neptco19]

well i couldnt wait for the weekend, so i decided to go ahead and pull the intake. When i did i found the pushrod in 2 pieces, and bent pretty bad. so im gonna order the new one today and hopefully it will be alright. the lifter was also out of its hole, is that anything that i need to worry about, or should it be fine to just put back in and go on. the cam looked to be alright as well as i could look at it. any ideas on what may have caused this, what normally causes them to bend.

[James P. Enderwies]

Jason: I guessed right. The fact that the lifter was out of it's hole is not supprising, the cam lobe "shot" it out.

You could re-use that lifter, BUT, I would check it out throughly. It could be the cause of your problem. If it collasped, it would cause excess slop and possiblly bend the rod. It is pretty easy to see if it is collasped, just press on the inside part with a rod and you should not be able to move it much if any.

If it is frozen, it wont move at all. This would possiblly cause the valve to hit the piston and break the rod.

If you are unfamiliar with the above procedures, have a good mechanic check it out for you. You DON'T what to put a bad one back in.

If the lifter is good, just re-install it and fill it with oil thru the hole in the top with a squirt gun before you start it.

If the lifter is bad, and you decide to put in a new one (not usually recomended but I've had no problem with it), just sand the bottom where it contacts the cam with 400 wet/dry sandpaper, clean well, fill with oil and smear a good amt. of assembly lube on both ends. Should work fine. :)

Good luck, Jim :beer:

[DoubleBit]

Ah, Dude. That's a drag. New (to you) jeep and engine troubles.
The guys have already covered most of the pit falls you could hit.
There must be a reason the pr died. Likely a stuck valve.
Investigate before reassembling. Is the vavle stuck?
Get that piston down first, see if you can move it.
You may need to rig up something but find a way of levering it down slowly and easy.
Don't just whack it w/ a bfh... keepers fly out, springs bounce to the floor, etc.
If it moves, do a cylinder leak down on that cylinder and all it's siblings so you get a better feel for the engines state of health.
If you decide to put a new cam and heads on. Do yourself a favor.
Pull the engine and rebuild it. At least inspect, hone, ring, bearing and such.
Otherwise you'll get all six firing and very likely have weak old rings, blow by and high oil consumption (smoke).
Good luck pardner! :coffee: Coffee for the nights of work ahead.

[James P. Enderwies]

DoubleBit: Oops, forgot about a stuck valve. I should have known since I has an intake stick in my 396 Camero once. :oops: Yea, it bent the rod, but in that 396, rods bent all the time. That is until I replaced them with the 375 HP rods that were 3/8" thick. Too much HP for stock diameter rods.

[neptco19]

well i decided while i have the intake and valve covers off i may as well repaint them. i was wondering what color was original on them since i found blue and a light green on them. or any ideas on any other colors you guys have seen that look good on these old things. i am thinking it may be a frozen lifter since i couldnt even budge it with the end of the p-rod. i imagine i am going to get a new lifter and p-rod. plus it was an intake valve so i am thinking that is better than an exhaust since it wasnt allowing any fuel in the combustion chamber and being trapped in there.

[53Flattie]

I've heard that Napa can order "Detroit Diesel Alpine Green", which is pretty close to the original color.

Be carefull with that intake gasket when you reassemble- from what everyone says, it's really easy to get oil leaks back there.

[Brian45]

Another common cause of bent pushrods is over revving the engine, as in missing a gear while under a full throttle run, or a boat coming out of the water under full throttle. This will generally evoke an "Aw S**t" from the operator, ask me how I know :shock: :D

[budtoh3zo]

Another common cause of bent pushrods is over revving the engine, as in missing a gear while under a full throttle run, or a boat coming out of the water under full throttle. This will generally evoke an "Aw S**t" from the operator, ask me how I know

Okay spill your guts. :twisted:

[MOP]

I am glad to see someone else has my troubles. Even though I don't have the time and should be working on work stuff, I decided to take 10 minutes to pull the p/s valve cover and see if I could diagnose the engine trouble that started yesterday while on the trail with Sparky. I have the exact same problem Jason did.

The absence of a push rod at my number 2 cylinder explains the breaking noise we heard and the ticking the engine now has. So, I guess it could be the lifter or a stuck valve? Due to my lack of time right now (and engine experience), I am trying to decide if I want to do this myself (with Sparky) or take it to my mechanic.

Any opinions on how I should proceed?

[vanguard]

I would ask the Sparkmeister whether or not he thinks you guys can tackle it.

[MOP]

He is always more enthusiastic than me. I am just whiny b/c my JEEP has only been running 1 week in the past 2 months (i know that's not long for some of you). My wife is visiting her grandmother for the week with our Toyota, so I am walking and pedaling my bike. I considered buying this today, but thought they might not take my bargaining too seriously when I rode in on my bicycle:

http://images.cobaltgroup.com/3/4/8/109913843.jpg

[67cj5]

Hey dont forget to inspect your rocker arm assembly. I have seen this same sort of thing when a stud was pulling from the head, and when a rocker arm has stress cracks around allowing it to flex. Just throwing out ideas.

[66cj5]

sounds like time for some head work. would also check the compression before you remove the heads.

[MOP]

So you guys are saying in the interest of time I should just swap over my spare 231 OF and see how it runs? ;)

[67cj5]

If you want to swap then go for it, but diagnosing this motor before pulling it could be beneficial $$$$. not having to replace alot of otherwise good parts. Could be as simple as a collapsed lifter, or a rocker arm that failed.