Which V6 headers?

[lynn]

On my last trail run, I noticed an exhaust leak at the manifold gasket. I put these BlackJack headers on 10+ years ago, never blew out a manifold gasket before. I guess I was due :roll:
These headers are pretty thin now. Last time I had to rework them to mate up my header buddys, I blew through them around the collectors way too easliy with the welder. I'm figuring I'll just have problems if I pull them to install a new manifold gasket, then try to reinstall them.

So I'm thinking about a new set of fenderwell headers.
What are you all running?
Where did you get them, who has the best price?
Quality? Fit-up?
Have you found any good coating to prevent rust? (I was thinking the POR 15 gray manifold paint?)

TIA

[DanStew]

I would definately say do not go with Pacesetter headers. Save your money for a better quality header.

But I would also say consider getting sotck exhaust put back on. I am tired of the headers, and I actually want to put a set of nerf/rockslider/steps on the jeep for my wife to get in, and for me to to trash my rocekrs anymore.

I think i bent my headers in Tellico somehow. I noticed that the drivers side exhaust is really cloe now to my rear tire, never was like that, but it is now, i think i used a rock to relocate the exhaust while i was in tellico. And with stock headers you may run a little better with a bit of back pressure. I noticed a big difference in my engine running the other month when my buddy cupped one tailpipe, i i cupped the other, that backpressure made the engine smooth out.

So that is what i am going to do after i get th ecommando lifted.. put new exhasut on. I think on ebay somebody is selling two sets of exhaust in the same auction.

[Project71-5]

I have Hedmann headers and they were okay. The paint that came on them was chipping before I even put them on :roll: I painted one side with rustoleum BBQ black, but even now thats chipping. But hey they were only $99 thru summit. :)

If you want them to last get a pair and have the JET coated or ceramic coated. ;)

[H8PAVMNT]

If you want them to last get a pair and have the JET coated or ceramic coated.


If I had a nice CJ like yours Lynn I'd go this route. See if Eric has the block huggers yet. I want to try those one day on my '70

[lynn]

Brad, I'll ask him tomorrow.

I'm not convinced that I want to go to stock cast manifolds (231/225) and inside-the-rail exhaust. It's potentiall more expensive, and a PITA if I have to drop any drivetrain. It's still on the table, but for the 2K miles I put on a year, I can tolerate headers.

I was paging through my Summit catalog here at work. I see that Heddmanns are 18 ga, Hookers are 16 ga, and Thorley's are 14 ga (and chromed to prevent rust)
I sent Thorley an email to see if they have any for the 225, price, etc. I'll post their reply.

Meanwhile, still looking for other input, share your stories/opinions here... :)

[jtanders]

Lynn,

Two years ago, I got a price on a whole new exhaust system with Thorleys'. The price for the whole system was $800 installed. I thought is was steep, and choose to wait awhile. I will probably end up getting stock cast manifolds.

[lynn]

Ouch!! :shock:
I'll see if they give me a decent price on just headers, no installation or other system components.

[53Flattie]

A friend of mine has a set of the Advance Adaptor fenderwell headers on his M38. They are VERY high quality. Very thick flanges at both the head end and the exhaust end. IIRC they were about $275, but they are conversion headers. I'll bet the ordinary 225 header wouldn't be quite as much. :roll:

[lynn]

Tim, thanks, I checked them out:
AA fenderwell headers, 225/231 V6:

p/n 717020, 3/8" flanges, 18 ga tubing, chrome, $252.71
Without chrome, $225.39
These are the AA website prices, some dealers may be less.

Tubing sounds thin at 18 ga., compared to Thorley at 14 ga..., but the thick flanges are a plus.

[lynn]

Response from Thorley:
"Sorry, we do not make a header for that application."

:evil:

[H8PAVMNT]

[SoCal accent]

Bummer dude.

[lynn]

So, there's the Heddmanns for $99, plus $184 for ceramic coating. But the manifold flanges and collector flanges are only 1/4", and they will warp. Total $283 plus shipping.

Or there's the AA chrome, with 3/8" thick flanges, $252 plus shipping. Hard to believe that AA may actually be the bargain.

Of course I could just get 3 sets of the regular uncoated Heddmanns for nearly the same price, three sets should outlast me :roll:

[DanStew]

or you can get 5 sets of the pacesetters with mufflers :oops: :oops:


The AA doesnt sound that bad, but then you are slave to the quality of te chrome, being chrome doesnt mean it will last. You know how many crappy chrome jobs there are out there :?

[Project71-5]

And you get the Bling effect :D

[DanStew]

Thats Right!!!!

You can also spend alot of your time with that anti-blueing polish that the Harley riders use. Make sure it is all polished, and then you can be a Hip-Hop superstar!!!
:roll: :roll:

[lynn]

I like blue :rotflmao:

[53Flattie]

I REALLY like the blueing. That's what my friend's have done. Of course, he hasn't ran them *that* much, but they sure do seem to be of high quality.

[vanguard]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=36474&item=2418002269

headers and an intake!

[lynn]

Joel, I'm ebay impaired :(
(my company has a block on ebay, and I don't have a computer at home)

[H8PAVMNT]

Here ya go Lynn.


Weiand 7541 Smokey Yunick manifold. Application Buick/GM/Jeep V6, 4-BBL, Single plane manifold with EGR punch out (not punched out)with 7541-2 top plate. Plus block hugger ? headers. part # 68999. I think they are headman headers. 3/8" flange, 1 1/2" primary tubes, 2 1/2" collector. The manifold has few miles, the headers never bolted up. No reserve auction ! Email eautoparts@hotmail.com

edit
$39.99 w/ 4 days on the clock.

[ljspop]

here's the pic:

http://www.ljspop.com/jeep/headers_n_manifold.jpg

[H8PAVMNT]

Oh ya, guess I got in a hurry.

Thanks for the backup Bob.

[lynn]

Thanks guys!!

Yep, they look like block huggers, sounds like substantial flanges(3/8"). That would put me in the same position as 231/225 cast manifolds, all new exhaust from there back. But hey, at $39.99, it's more attractive :)
I'd have no use for the manifold, I'm not doing a 4 bbl.

I have a VMX in to PartsMike and an email in to Bob Supplee, see what they can do on the AA fenderwell prices.

[ljspop]

it's already up to $102.51

[vanguard]

Its the intake. Those really seem to go for a lot of $$$. Anyways, buick v6 headers seem to come up with regular frequency. eBay can be a good bargain if you know what to look for.

[nickmil]

There is another way to make the paint hold up on headers. First, glass bead or sand blast them to give a little texture for the paint to grab onto. Next, buy the $5-$7 a can or whatever it costs made for doing exhaust manifolds and headers. This step is very important. BEFORE you mount them, hang them up with some wire and go over them with a propane torch to lightly preheat the headers and THEN paint them. Let them cure, then go over them with the torch again to set the paint up. It's not really paint but a kind of coating and comes in different colors. Don't get too close to the paint so you burn the paint but enough to heat it up and let the paint set up. We did this years ago on the headers on my Dad's '72 GMC 3/4 4x4 and they still look decent. I think it's VHT that makes the paint but can't remember for sure. I did see it at the local parts house a couple of weeks ago so I know it's still available. Good luck. Nickmil. :D

[Chris Insull]

Been running the AA 225 headsers since 1998 when I did my P/S conversion. Excellent quality, thick STRAIGHT flanges, no warping, no exhaust leaks. The only thing I would do different is have them Jet-Hot coated, and may still do it. Money well spent, IMHO. :)

[Pa-CJ5]

The local powder coating shop said that they can spray a coating that will withstand 1500 degree temps. Does anyone know if this would hold up on headers?

Has anyone used the Hedman mufflers that 4WD Hardware sells?

[Mcruff]

My Hedmans (from Summit) have been on my Jeep since January of 1993 and the flanges have never warped and the headers have never leaked but they were never taken off until recently to rebuild my motor and the metal is still in good enough shape that I'm thinking about putting the POR coating on them when I put them back on. The only reason header flanges usually warp is overtightening them (not heat) to account for leaks in the gaskets.
If you put good gaskets on them and put header lock bolts so you don't overtighten them from the bolts loosening you probably won't warp the flanges.

[lynn]

BobSupplee said he'll get back to me over the weekend regarding his price on the AA headers. Didn't hear from PartsMike.

I emailed Eric at Novak, he said he has some available, but they only work with conversion motor mounts. There is a 1" interference with factory mounts, and the manufacturer has been non responsive regarding request for change. He said he's working on a deal for some high-quality stainless ones.
I'm not sure if these are the block huggers someone discussed with him some time ago.
I'll be in touch with Eric later today, I'll get it clarified.

BTW, looking at my headers last night, they are in worse shape than I suspected.

[lynn]

I got a good price from PartsMike, but an even better price from Bob Supplee. I'm going to order the AA chromed ones from Bob this morning.

If anyone else is looking for a set of these PartsMike has a set on the shelf for a bit less than catalog list price.

BTW, if I haven't posted this already, the stainless headers Eric is working on are the block hugger style, designrd to accomodate single 2.5" exhaust but will work for duals.
The suppliers are on board, he still needs to complete the solid modelling. He's thinking late fall for the first set (to go on his '69).
He said he might post a copy of the solid model here on our board for our review!
If you're interested in these, let him know.

[James P. Enderwies]

but an even better price from Bob Supplee.
Lynn: Just how does one get in contact with Bob Supplee? Interested in AA Headers also. :) :beer: Jim

[4S50]

Lynn, sorry I did not reply sooner, but I overlooked this post. I have experience with the AA headers and the Hedman headers and prefer the Hedman. The Hedman's cost less, are good quality and the collectors are much shorter. This allows more room for a muffler and also makes it easier to keep the pipes and muffler tucked up close to the body. Patrick and I had talked about this, maybe on the old forum, and his experience was the same.

[lynn]

Greg, thanks for that input.

I got a voicemail from Bob last night, some problem with the availability of the chrome headers. ? Not sure what is up, my wife gave me the message :roll:

I need to talk to him, maybe I'll just go with the Hedmans and save a hunderd bucs or so. Or maybe I'll get the Hedman's, jet-coated. :)
I'll decide that once I find out what the problem is with my order.
(Why does it seem like anytime anyone deals with AA there's some sort of problem?? :evil: )

Jim, Bob's contact info:
(405) 799-8977
He's in Moore, Oklahoma.
email: supplee@ionet.net

Note that Bob is going on vacation, tomorrow through the 16th.

[lynn]

[rant/on]
Getting frustrated here :evil:
Bob Supplee told me that AA would take a few weeks, they didn't have any chromed. So I cancelled the order. Called Summit, told them I wanted a plain old set of Hedmans. Cheap. $99. I'll paint them, so what if they rust later. The last ones (Blackjacks) lasted 10 years. Anyway, I figured that's $100+ that will remain in the Jeep account.
So I call Summit.
The guy tells me that Hedman doesn't make a header for that application.
:evil:
Doesn't incompetence just **** you off? :evil:
So I got the tech line phone # for Hedman, called there, had to leave a voicemail :evil:

...waiting... ... ...

[rant /off]

EDIT: Ordered Hedman p/n 69420, $119 from Summit Racing. Should be on my porch Friday. Now to call the paint dept here at work and find out what kind of high-temp paint we use on the Bradleys... ;)

[Mcruff]

Lynn, if you can't find anything at work try some of the manifold paint that POR sells.
These are the specs on there website:
FACTORY MANIFOLD GRAY™ is a high temp gray paint capable of withstanding extreme temperatures up to 1400° F. This high temp paint will maintain a durable iron gray color and won't burn off. Can be used on all cars, domestic or foreign, and it meets or exceeds properties and requirements of MIL-C-13370.

Can be brushed or sprayed.

APPLICATIONS:
Manifolds
Headers
Exhaust pipes
Stoves

*NOTE: For best results sandblasting before painting is recommended.

A pint of this stuff is $26 Lynn that is alot cheaper than having them Jet coated especially with shipping both directions and the time element involved.

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~showpic~0000207a~AAABC~~~

[lynn]

Thanks Mike. That's exactly my (revised ;) ) plan, if I can't find something good at work I'm going to sandblast and use the POR Manifold gray.

[James P. Enderwies]

So I call Summit.
The guy tells me that Hedman doesn't make a header for that application.


Lynn: Don't you just love it! If you check out Summit's on line cataloge, they list Headman's header for that application with that part no.! Guess they've never read their own cataloge! :twisted: Jim

[lynn]

Yeah Jim, I guess it's tough toget good help these days. :roll:

On a brighter note, I just spoke to our paint engineer. He said we use an aluminum hi-temp (~1600F) paint on the Bradley or M88 exhaust. He told me to go get a pass from the dept manager when my headers arrive, and bring them in. The guys in the paint dept will blast them, paint them and bake them. I was not successful in having him deliver them to my house and bolt them on, but I tried :D

[H8PAVMNT]

I was not successful in having him deliver them to my house and bolt them on, but I tried


See, it is true. You can't get good help. I'll have my set fed-ex'd to your office for the same treatment. Thanks Lynn. :D
:coffee:

[James P. Enderwies]

I'll have my set fed-ex'd to your office for the same treatment. Thanks Lynn.

Lynn: What a GREAT idea you have. Such a pal. Thanks for voluntiering. :) :rotflmao: Actually, I was thinking of using POR 15 aluminum. It has a 1500 deg temp rating instead of 1400 for the gray. :beer: :beer: Jim

[Jeepenstein]

I have been using the heddmans for about 10 years, changing them every 3 years due to rust.. bummer.. but i am gonna have this set ceramic coated. I have never had leak problems with them, some one here said they warp, is that from the coating process??

[vanguard]

Lynn,

I was just reviewing your post about headers? I remember you saying the Bradley high temp paint burntr right off, but how have the headers been otherwise?

[BDL67]

I was thinking about going with the hedman header and muffler kit for 259. from 4wd hardware

[66cj5]

I was thinking about going with the hedman header and muffler kit for 259. from 4wd hardware


got a better deal from flaps than 4wd.

[wheelie]

Lynn, I had my headers nickel plated when new. Didn't spend the bucks to have them polished. Have held up well thus far. My tips were also plated and they are beginning to pit now. Don't recall what brand I bought. I want to say Hedman, but not positive.

[lynn]

Well the Heddmans are just fine so far Joel. I use Header Buddy instead of flange gaskets at the collector, works well.

http://www.headerbuddy.com/

Yep that hi-temp paint flaked right off!! :roll: especially at the bends. Right up by the flange/block, the paint is still on, maybe an inch or so down the tube. After that, it's gone, just rust. I really thought that sandblasting them, then the hi-temp aluminum paint would work. :(

Next time maybe I'll spring for the ceramic, or find out where Dave got his nickel plated. I've seen Dave's nickel plated headers and they look good.
If these Heddman's hold up as well as the Blackjack's I took off, then I won't be buying headers again for about 9 more years :)

[jpflat2a]

I used AA headers for my V6 in my flattie; I think they were cad plated; after 20 years they looked bad (have never cracked)
In 2002 I used Eastwood silver high temp paint, pint can, brushed it on.
hasn't come of yet, still looks good, 3 years later

[SandhillMike]

The Eastwood high temp paint is the best I've found.

[goober]

i purchased the hedmans from 4wd a few years ago. i got them with the header mufflers that they sell, boy was that a mistake. the mufflers are 3.5 inches at the outlet tip. too big for the 225 you lose a few hp, better off getting the hedmans minus the header mufflers and buy some after market muffler.

[lynn]

Yep, buy some cheapo $20 Turbo mufflers at Pep Boys, etc. They're quieter than header mufflers or Cherry Bombs, and if you keep your outlet limited to 2" you maintain enough back pressure to help the engine, AND you'll be able to idle with your exhaust under water :)

Besides if you crush or damage these cheapo mufflers, they're easy and cheap to replace :D

[Patrick]

I've got Hedmans, and cheap Cherrybomb (brand) turbo's. I think it sounds good. My dad has the AA headers, and the flange is definitley thicker. One thing I did notice is that the AA headers are longer, somewhat limiting your options as far as mufflers/ turnouts. Dad has his run up under the back, with two mufflers side by side under the rear of the Jeep......

[jpflat2a]

Joel
I still have 3/4 can of the Eastwood silver if you want it......

[ljspop]

Jim - If Joel doesn't I would. :D

[vanguard]

I might take you up on it. Bob threw a set of used chrome headers my way, they seem to be in fair shape with some rust. I have to inspect them closer.

[jpflat2a]

okay
when I come get the engine (soon) I bring the can; I didn't use much, should do several more sets of headers
stir well to get all the floaters...well....floating!

[bigbirdcj]

I am running the Hedman fenderwell with 40 series flowmasters and hate it. Does anyone know if the stock forward facing manifold will work with a P/S pump mounted? I've looked at in frame headers or stock manifolds for buicks but nothing will clear the saginaw steering shaft and hyd. clutch cylinder I installed on the bellhousing. Thanks for any advice. Will