Head gaskets

[Worth]

Alright, I'm about ready to put the new head gaskets on and I read in the shop manual I'm supposed to spray them with "Perfect Seal Aerosol Spray Sealer. Is this still current? The new gaskets are coated in teflon. If I need to spray them with a sealer, what is the modern day equivalent?

Also, two paragraphs down it says to lubricate the bolts with sealing compound. What should I use for that?

Thanks.

[blevisay]

Prolly not.
Whose gaskets are you using?

[sparky]

I used uhh, the copper stuff on head gaskets.

However, read the instructions with the GASKETS that's what to go by.

[blevisay]

My words exactly Sparky.
BTW Copper coat is a GOD send.

[Patrick]

If they're teflon coated, (like Fel-Pro), don't spray them with anything. I personally won't use anything but Fel-pro, especially on head gaskets.

[Worth]

Prolly not.
Whose gaskets are you using?

Victor-Reinz, IIRC. Bought the head job kit at NAPA. I don't recall seeing any instructions in the box.

[sparky]

Now Worth, this is a family oriented Forum.

Please be less descriptive with your purchases in the future for some of our younger readers. :rotflmao:

[Worth]

Now Worth, this is a family oriented Forum....:rotflmao:

Man. I gotta be more careful. Please accept my humble apologies.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Patrick]

Hmm, didn't know Napa sold those :roll:

[msbweiland]

I wish my NAPA did! You should see their parts delivery girl :shock: :twisted: :oops: . I order each part seperately just to keep her coming back all day ;) . Just don't tell the boss lady :cry: .

[w3srl]

She look like the "Tool-Time girl"? :shock:

[Hippo393]

Would the "sealing compound" that you're referring to be the equivalent of "loc-tite"? I'd be afraid of the permanence of it. In fact, I used bearing grease on the threads and deal with re-torquing as necessary.

[Worth]

Would the "sealing compound" that you're referring to be the equivalent of "loc-tite"?

A friend here at work said the same thing. I would think not. They're going to be tight enough as it is. I don't want to have too much trouble getting them out next time. I wonder if that sticky blue stuff I prep paper gaskets with would be good. I like your idea of using bearing grease.

BTW, I checked last night. No instructions with the gaskets. I went to Victor-Reinz web site this morning and couldn't find any DIY instructions. I've never replaced head gaskets before but it seems like the coating of teflon that came on them would be enough.

[ljspop]

Do the head bolts go through water passages? That is the case on small block fords (my only point of reference), and the ones that do need a little gasket sealer on them to prevent them from leaking. Don't know if that is the case for your engine - just a data point.

Make sure all of your threads are in good shape - it makes a difference in torque-ing.

Bob

[Hippo393]

Make sure all of your threads are in good shape - it makes a difference in torque-ing.
OMG good point. Take a small wire brush or wire weel to the threads to clean 'em up.

Worth--the Jeep Bible (King & Worthy) makes no mention of using any sealer for the head gaskets, and they would have if it were required. Just says to study the old ones that were on there; consider having head machined; and that retorquing after 500 miles isn't necessary with the newer type gaskets.
FYI. :beer:

ljspop--Regarding water passages: Not on the V6, but yes for the L- and F-head.

[blevisay]

Not being a 225 Guy myself I am not sure if the bolts enter the water passages or not......with that said. If they do use non hardening permatex on them. Even if they don't apply a thin coat of oil on the "clean" bolts. The oil is for the torque spec. The "book" way is to replace the bolts and not reuse any of them do to strecthing. HTH

[Worth]

This forum rocks. I'll check for flatness to see if machining is necessary (hope not).


...The "book" way is to replace the bolts and not reuse any of them do to strecthing. HTH

Interestingly, the shop manual doesn't mention it for the heads but for the intake manifold it says to keep track of the bolts and make sure they go back in the original holes. I was planning on doing the same with the head bolts. With absolutely no basis, I'm always suspicious of the grade-8 bolts I buy at the local home centers. I don't know why. What would you do?

[ljspop]

I've re-used head bolts with no ill effects. The head bolts I've seen are not standard looking grade 8 fare. Most have bigger heads. Here is a link to a Fiat page of all things, but it does have some useful info. It says head bolts are usually grade 10...

http://www.fiatplus.com/tech1199.htm

Running a tap in the block and a die over the bolt is the best way I know to ensure your threads are all good.

Have fun! :beer:

[Chuck]

Running a tap in the block and a die over the bolt is the best way I know to ensure your threads are all good.

Have fun! :beer:
X2, I also dip the bolts in motor oil to help gain an accurate torque.

[Mcruff]

Permatex makes aircraft thread sealer, every bolt on my motor has it on it.
Oiling bolts is not an accurate way of insuring the torque unless you lower the torque rating according to the manufactures specs. The lowered friction from oiling will actually stretch the bolt farther than its supposed to be.

[Hippo393]

I must be in in the Twilight Zone.....I had read this thread earlier tonight after doing a search for Head Bolt Sealant. What are the chances that it got resurrected same night! :shock:

I used no sealant or oil on my head bolts about an hour ago, just chased the threads & tap. No leaks yet. :D

[w3srl]

Good clean livin' Hippo! R)

I still retorque after 200-300 miles and they ALWAYS are off-spec. ;)

YMMV.

[bwcowboy]

You can refer to the ARP fasteners website and catalog to see a comparison between using standard 30 wt. motor oil versus their own brand of moly lube. I believe they recomend some form of lubricant on all head bolts as well as rod and intake bolts. If not lubricated, you will get a very inacurate torque reading.

The head bolts can be reused as long as they have never been over-torqued and stressed beyond their yield point. Some newer vehicles use head bolts that are intentionally torqued to the yield point of the material. If the bolt is more than .001" longer than original length, it is no good.

I think the thread sealant that was referred to is only when going into a water passage. Have seen them leak alot when not sealed. High temp RTV is always my safe bet.

Hope this helps out, have been doing research on the head bolt question for some reports.

[Rondog]

Permatex makes aircraft thread sealer, every bolt on my motor has it on it.

Are you talking about Anti-Sieze, Mike? Or something else?

[Chuck]

You can refer to the ARP fasteners website and catalog to see a comparison between using standard 30 wt. motor oil versus their own brand of moly lube. I believe they recomend some form of lubricant on all head bolts as well as rod and intake bolts. If not lubricated, you will get a very inacurate torque reading.
X2 just checked out the chart and I agree using a special lubricant or 30-wt oil is the proper thing to do.

[mruta]

Alright, I'm about ready to put the new head gaskets on and I read in the shop manual I'm supposed to spray them with "Perfect Seal Aerosol Spray Sealer. Is this still current? The new gaskets are coated in teflon. If I need to spray them with a sealer, what is the modern day equivalent?


Thanks.

Don't put nothin' on that head gasket. The sealer was required way back when the head gaskets were bare metal...

[Mcruff]

If I remember right is permatex 3H gasket sealer and thread sealer. it is designed for aircraft use. A local hot rodder and engine builder swore by the stuff and had used it on 100's of engines. I figure aircraft engines require the the most attention to detail so what the heck, it worked great.

[Ppilotmike]

The product I think you are refering to is aircraft form-a-gasket. In aircraft engines it is used to seal the two case halves together in conjunction with silk thread. Both Continental and Lycoming caution you to NOT use it with a gasket. Mike

[Old Bill]

The product I think you are refering to is aircraft form-a-gasket. In aircraft engines it is used to seal the two case halves together in conjunction with silk thread. Both Continental and Lycoming caution you to NOT use it with a gasket. Mike


Hmmm, I used it extensively during Old Bill's rebuild, including pumpkins, Xfer, tranny, and engine. Works MUCH better than RTV IMHO. So far, nothing more than a small drop at the drain plugs.

We are talking about the molasses lookin' stuff, right?

[Mudweiserjeep]

I wish my NAPA did! You should see their parts delivery girl :shock: :twisted: :oops: . I order each part seperately just to keep her coming back all day ;) . Just don't tell the boss lady :cry: .
:shock: :twisted: R) R)

[Ppilotmike]

Yup that be the stuff. I have also run across many people that used it on thier engine rebuilds and I would agree that it is a vast improvement over RTV, which by the way has brought many an airplane to an early unscheduled landing. My personal view is to follow the manufactures recomendations when it comes to gaskets. Aircraft gaskets are only made for/by the engine maker so YMMV when using in an automotive application. Also there are no head gaskets on aircraft engines and 99.9%are air cooled. Mike

[Mcruff]

Well I didn't use it on head gaskets, from my experience unless you have a 30 year old head gasket laying around virtually all new head gaskets for autos are to be put on as is. But I did use it on the water pump, timing cover, fuel pump, pan gasket and most all the bolt threads.