Herm's MC kit and pushrod?

[Spicolli]

Has any one installed Herm's brake conversion kit on a cj2a or cj3a? I just did and wanted to know if your pushrod was off from your peddle! My brake peddle is just off from the line of the pushrod to the right! With the stock MC it was all inline now, looks like ill have to bend the pushrod. the mounting kit is in the right spot (i checked and rechecked it first) any ideas! I plan on calling Herm on monday for advice. just wanted to see if any one elce has had this prob with a flattie and the MC kit. :?

[jpflat2a]

just a thought
could you re-drill the holes on the cross shaft and slide the pedal inboard more?
the holes hold the cotter pins that retain the spacers and pedal; you could then re-space it.
this would depend on how much of a hole opening thru the floor for the pedal you have
I would not bend the push rod; they are hardened; you would prob have to heat it to bend it IMO

[48cj2a]

I haven't installed mine yet, but could a piece of round stock the correct length replace the short one or welded on to lengthen it?

For my own knowledge, does the stock push rod length work or did you have to modify any (shorter/longer) from what your pictures show?

[Spicolli]

Well i was thinking of doing just that! But, it looks like it might hit the Clutch Pedal Linkage when i was messin with it. I took the cotter pin and washer out and moved the pedle over inline with the pushrod, With the clutch linkage inplace its really tight! Do you think its a bad idea to heat the pushrod and custom Fabricate (bend the **** out of it) to make it work? It looks like it wont take much to make it fit.

[jpflat2a]

I haven't installed mine yet, but could a piece of round stock the correct length replace the short one or welded on to lengthen it?



I thought about that also
don't know what effect the extra leverage would have on it

[Spicolli]

[/QUOTE]For my own knowledge, does the stock push rod length work or did you have to modify any (shorter/longer) from what your pictures show?[/QUOTE]

My stock pushrod is longer, I will have to short'n it some. The length wont be a prob. easy fix! (you might need a tap and die set)

[jpflat2a]

Do you think its a bad idea to heat the pushrod and custom Fabricate (bend the **** out of it) to make it work? It looks like it wont take much to make it fit.


IMO any bending is going to shorten the push rod in length
and....you would ruin it if it doesn't work.....

[Spicolli]

I figure the pushrod is too long now, so bending it will help in short'n it to fit. I would need to bend it as close to the pedle as i can. (not to hard with heat)

[jpflat2a]

would be possible to angle the mounting of the cylinder ?
extra washer or two under the mounting flange to angle it towards the pedal ?
not the way I would want it, just thinking out loud
you want the push rod to be in line with the cylinder bore
I would think angling the rod would wear the bore unevenly and cause premature failure (thinking out loud again)

[Spicolli]

just a thought
could you re-drill the holes on the cross shaft and slide the pedal inboard more?
the holes hold the cotter pins that retain the spacers and pedal; you could then re-space it.
this would depend on how much of a hole opening thru the floor for the pedal you have
I would not bend the push rod; they are hardened; you would prob have to heat it to bend it IMO


I really dont want to bend it. I would like a better way of fixin the prob. I might try moving the pedle first (since its reversible in the end) and won't case any damage if its not going ot workout!

[Mark W.]

Why don't you simply move the whole MC mount the direction you need the center line to go! Wouldn't it be easier to slightly elongate the mounting holes in the frame to allow this?

If worried about the mount moving in larger holes you could always just drill a third hole and tight fit a 5/16 grade 8 in the new hole to sort of pin the mount inplace.

I wouldn't bend the rod I sure wouldn't add any heet to it. As stated earlier they are a heet treated part. and any heet above wheat straw color (about 400`) will have an effect on the condition of the steel. And you ain't gonna bend that at less then red or 1000-1200` at which point the heet treating will be shot.


It also looks to me from your photo as if the top to the MC is hard against the frame I would much rather have a little gap there so that the top is easier to get on and off as well as there being no rubbing against the frame as it twists.

[blevisay]

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Tech/BrakesDualMaster.html


HTH

[Mcruff]

Bill did you notice the photos in your link? The guy ran the rear MC port to the rear brakes and the front port to the front brakes, I hope he doesn't put disk's up front or there never gonna work right with it set up this way.
You could make an extended stud for the pushrod and press it into the pedal arm and peen it over, I made a new arm stud for Lynn's v6 clutch pedal arm when I rebushed it about a year ago.

[Spicolli]

Why don't you simply move the whole MC mount the direction you need the center line to go! Wouldn't it be easier to slightly elongate the mounting holes in the frame to allow this?

If worried about the mount moving in larger holes you could always just drill a third hole and tight fit a 5/16 grade 8 in the new hole to sort of pin the mount inplace.

I wouldn't bend the rod I sure wouldn't add any heet to it. As stated earlier they are a heet treated part. and any heet above wheat straw color (about 400`) will have an effect on the condition of the steel. And you ain't gonna bend that at less then red or 1000-1200` at which point the heet treating will be shot.


It also looks to me from your photo as if the top to the MC is hard against the frame I would much rather have a little gap there so that the top is easier to get on and off as well as there being no rubbing against the frame as it twists.

I was looking @ the whole mount also. It looks like the whole thing should be moved about 1/2 or less over and this should take care of the prob. I also just test fit my body on the frame and it looks like if i was going to use stock mounts (which im not) the body will hit the MC, but its really close with the ones im going to use. I just e-mailed herm and sent him pic of it inplace with the body on.

Bottom line it just looks like eather i have the wrong kit for a cj2a/3a or i have a little different frame/body placement!?!

[Mark W.]

You could easily do the elongation with a course rat tail file and a little time. Or if you have a die grinder and a 5/16 cylinder or spear shaped cutter it would only take a few minutes. You could always once it's all set and perfectly aglined drill for one or two new bolts and that would lock it in place.

[blevisay]

Why don't you simply move the whole MC mount the direction you need the center line to go! Wouldn't it be easier to slightly elongate the mounting holes in the frame to allow this?

If worried about the mount moving in larger holes you could always just drill a third hole and tight fit a 5/16 grade 8 in the new hole to sort of pin the mount inplace.

I wouldn't bend the rod I sure wouldn't add any heet to it. As stated earlier they are a heet treated part. and any heet above wheat straw color (about 400`) will have an effect on the condition of the steel. And you ain't gonna bend that at less then red or 1000-1200` at which point the heet treating will be shot.


It also looks to me from your photo as if the top to the MC is hard against the frame I would much rather have a little gap there so that the top is easier to get on and off as well as there being no rubbing against the frame as it twists.


This one?

[w3srl]

DON'T MODIFY ANYTHING!

I had exactly the same problem with my pedals after doing the dual MC conversion. Before you cut, bend or other wise alter anything, take the pedal pivot bracket (under the frame rail) off and rotate it 180* and bolt it back on. If you look at it, one side of the sleeve is about 1/4" longer than the other, and reversing this bracket will kick both pedals back over where they need to be.

In my case, I got the tub mounted back on the frame before I realized that the stems for the pedals wouldn't go back into the cast pedal arms unless I really hogged out the holes in my floor. I didn't want to do that, and started looking for alternatives! YMMV.

Oh, and I ended up fabbing up my own pushrod by using a drilled out nut for the pivot and a long 5/16" bolt with the end rounded off as the pushrod. Weld the nut onto the rod, and cut the rod a tad longger than you need. That way you can just grind the bolt until it *just* fits.

I also used a grinder to take a tiny amount off the upper frame rail to allow clearance for the MC lid as mentioned above. ;)

[Spicolli]

:) Thank for the info W3srl

I checked it out and it looked like it really doesn't change any thing by turning pedal pivot bracket. I will look alot closer agin! Also, do you have any pic. of this mod on your cj2A.

Thanks!! :stout:

[Mark W.]

I couldn't do the swap if I wanted to on my CJ5 frame the pivot tube is not bolted on mine it's welded.

I still think the simplest way to correct this is to just move the bracket over inline with the pedal. You can file out the frame or the bracket either way.

BUT first I would call Herm and ask you can bet this has come up before and Herm will without a doubt help you through it he's just that kind of guy!

[w3srl]

Mine was welded on too, but the sawzall took care of that right quick! :)

[Spicolli]

ya before i mod the mod :) (can i say that :?) :)

I plan to talk with Herm!! I didn't want to call him today (its sunday and all) I plan on calling him tomarrow.. Just wanted to see if anyone had this come up when and if they did this mod on there flattie! Also, if some one allready had the fix..

Thanks all for the ideas on how to make work better! i'll update after i chat with Herm on mon!!!

[53Flattie]

ya before i mod the mod :) (can i say that :?) :)

I plan to talk with Herm!! I didn't want to call him today (its sunday and all) I plan on calling him tomarrow.. Just wanted to see if anyone had this come up when and if they did this mod on there flattie! Also, if some one allready had the fix..

Thanks all for the ideas on how to make work better! i'll update after i chat with Herm on mon!!!

I made the upgrade on my old flattie, but I didn't use Herm's kit. Just FYI - on mine, the MC lid was VERY tight with the body brace. I wasn't using the stock body "bushings", but rather the aftermarket poly bushings - and they allowed just a tiny amount of clearance.

Also FYI - the pedal tube was not welded on my CJ5.

[Spicolli]

53 flattie

Did you turn your pedal tube?

[53Flattie]

53 flattie

Did you turn your pedal tube?

Do you mean "turn" like Steve (w3srl) mentioned? That, I didn't do. Everything remained attached to the frame. I just made a bracket to bolt the dual-chamber MC to, when welded it to the frame, in line with the pedal, and far enough away that the pushrod would work right. I also had the body off, that that made things much easier.

I'm pretty sure I still have pictures. I'll post them tonight.

[jpflat2a]

any news from Herm today ?
update ?

[Spicolli]

No! not yet..

I e-mailed him with pics.. Im sure he will contact me when he can!
Also, i plan to fab a bracket (plate) to bolt/weld to extend the MC bracket! OR I was also thinking of just using his bracket and fab one thats alittle longer to fit better! or just drill the holes out more so I can move it over more!?! Its going to be a few day before i get time to mess with it so when i do i'll let ya know and post pic of how i overcome the prob... ;)

[Spicolli]

Well, I drilled em! :)

I got a chanch to work on the jeep today, so after lots of thinkin insted of makin a bracket to move the MC, I drilled the holes out with 1/2 bit... this should give me just the movement i need to line it all up!! i'll find out in the morning when i get the time to put it back together!! now its :beer: 30!!!!!!

[jd7]

8)